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Post by lisaann on Jul 7, 2015 13:00:53 GMT -5
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camochef
Blooming
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
Posts: 171
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Post by camochef on Jul 7, 2015 13:02:56 GMT -5
Camo - are you using commercial seed for these, or saving your own? Tbird, I haven't bought any tomato seed since back around 2006 or so. I save my own heirloom seed. Why even my mountain fresh hybrid seed is from last years saved seed. In the past, (when I grew hundreds of tomatoes), I sent seed to growers throughout the USA and eventually to Canada, Europe, Africa, Asia, and even the Philippines where my Cowlicks Brandywine was quite successful. Now with much smaller gardens, I no longer do that. Besides, so far this year I only had two ripe tomatoes and I ate all the seed that was in them both. Hopefully they won't be the last! Enjoy! Camo
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camochef
Blooming
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
Posts: 171
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Post by camochef on Jul 7, 2015 13:11:31 GMT -5
Jersey boy is a hybrid. New this year. Lisaann, While Jersey Boy may be new this year, I seriously doubt that its a hybrid. If both parents are heirlooms, than the end product should just be a cross and not a hybrid unless other varieties are also involved. I won't go into the practices of some companies, especially those that have changed hands so often. Enjoy! Camo
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Post by lisaann on Jul 7, 2015 13:29:00 GMT -5
Don't cha think it could end up as some half ass plant of either a weak rutger or brandywine.
I'll save seeds out of the first ripe tomato and you can have some for next year to grow out.
Guess we can try to grow f2s
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Post by lisaann on Jul 7, 2015 14:01:54 GMT -5
Camo, I just reread one comment you made. And burpee is notorious these days misleading the public when it advertises a new variety. Well, I'll still save seeds and with your space one plant should not be a problem to test next year.
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Post by brownrexx on Jul 7, 2015 14:49:11 GMT -5
I seriously doubt that its a hybrid I would call it a hybrid if the parents are 2 different varieties, heirloom or not. I don't save seed even from my heirlooms because I do not bag the flowers and bees will cross pollinate the plants. I only grow 15 - 18 plants per year so I buy my seeds.
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camochef
Blooming
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
Posts: 171
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Post by camochef on Jul 7, 2015 21:03:04 GMT -5
I would call it a hybrid if the parents are 2 different varieties, heirloom or not. Brownrexx, A cross between two different varieties of heirlooms doesn't make a hybrid. For example; Keith Mueller of Bear Creek Farms in Missouri, crossed Pink Brandywine and Cherokee Purple, both heirlooms, back in 2009. That cross yielded whats become known as the 4 sisters to tomato growers world-wide. They are: Bear Creek, a purplish/black R.L. large tomato Dora, a pink R.L. large tomato Gary O'Sena, a large purplish/black P.L. tomato Liz Birt, a pink P.L. tomato They are all heirlooms and I've grown all four since 2009 until this past year. This year,I'm only growing Bear Creek, which I consider the best of the 4. These are probably the most famous of the heirloom crosses around the world, and all 4 are well worth growing for their great taste, large size and decent productivity. There are many other heirloom crosses and I've developed some my self, simply by placing pollen from one heirloom onto a blossom of another variety. These crosses will yield seed that remains true year after year, although weather conditions can effect the results somewhat. I haven't bought tomato seed in the last 9-10 years. Although I do trade seeds with others that I trust; and accept seeds from those I've traded with for years now. Basically, I only grow heirlooms for the past 10-12 years or more, but that's my preference for many reasons. Last year was the first time I grew an hybrid in years and from what I understand they can be treated like an heirloom as far as seed-saving goes. Will find out soon. Enjoy! Camo
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camochef
Blooming
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
Posts: 171
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Post by camochef on Jul 7, 2015 21:18:08 GMT -5
Don't cha think it could end up as some half ass plant of either a weak rutger or brandywine. Lisaann, It should produce the same tomato as the original. One could play around with the original parents using one blossom as the receptor and then trying the opposite one. Could also play around with leaf types. O know pink Brandywines are P.L. Don't recall what leaf type Rutgers is but I think its R.L. What leaf type is Jersey Boy? Also curious as to tomato color. Is it pink or red? Wonder what it would make if one used Red Brandywine instead of Pink? Then there's the P.L. Red Brandywine that I'm growing again this year. (Red Brandywine is supposed to be R.L.) Anyway, with the expansion of my veggie gardens, I'm too busy growing Spinach, Chard, beets, cukes, squash, lettuce, cabbage okra and other crops to devote as much time to tomatoes as I used to. Enjoy! Camo
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camochef
Blooming
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
Posts: 171
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Post by camochef on Jul 7, 2015 21:25:06 GMT -5
I have rutger shaped and Brandywine shaped tomatos on the same plant. I only have one plant of that variety. Lisaann, That would suggest to me that the variety isn't stable yet. I went through the same thing with Black Brandywine a number of years ago. Actually had three different tomato shapes on the same plant. I had one year where they actually produced the best tasting tomato of the year, but that didn't last for long as the next few years, they were terrible. Grew them long enough to make sure its wasn't weather related, then let them fall to the wayside. enjoy! Camo
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camochef
Blooming
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
Posts: 171
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Post by camochef on Jul 7, 2015 21:31:18 GMT -5
And burpee is notorious these days misleading the public when it advertises a new variety. Burpee is not what it was years ago when they deserved the reputation they had earned. With many owners since then, it no longer has that reputation. Now they charge top dollar for small amounts of seed and many don't live up to their promise. They aren't very high on my list for seed sources. In my younger days, they were one of the best. Enjoy! Camo
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Post by brownrexx on Jul 8, 2015 13:43:54 GMT -5
A cross between two different varieties of heirlooms doesn't make a hybrid. For example; Keith Mueller of Bear Creek Farms in Missouri, crossed Pink Brandywine and Cherokee Purple, both heirlooms, back in 2009. That cross yielded whats become known as the 4 sisters to tomato growers world-wide. They are: Bear Creek, a purplish/black R.L. large tomato Dora, a pink R.L. large tomato Gary O'Sena, a large purplish/black P.L. tomato Liz Birt, a pink P.L. tomato They are all heirlooms Camo, you have probably forgotten more information about breeding tomatoes that I will ever know but I will have to disagree with you here on terminology. First of all the generally accepted definition for an heirloom is an old open pollinated variety that has been continuously grown for 50 years or more so how could a plant developed in 2009 be called an heirloom? Secondly you are calling the breeding of two heirlooms a "cross" instead of a hybrid. Cross refers to cross pollination and cross pollination between two genetically different plants results in a hybrid. I looked at a few journals on plant breeding terminology and I see nothing to tell me different. I am sure you are totally correct in saying that some tomato breeders do not call crossing two heirlooms a hybrid, but in my book - it's a hybrid. I know that I am splitting hairs and getting focused on terminology but no matter what tomato breeders call it, scientifically it is still a hybrid.
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Post by lisaann on Jul 8, 2015 14:24:57 GMT -5
It's a hybrid in my little black book too! But I just couldn't type it to make sense!
And the seeds will be f2s.
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Post by lilolpeapicker on Jul 8, 2015 15:16:17 GMT -5
I agree with brownrexx and lisaann about the hybrid. I also looked it up on google and the definition of a Hybrid is two different varieties to get the best characteristics of each parent.
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Post by lisaann on Jul 8, 2015 15:23:47 GMT -5
My name is highlighted, But no notification, I think you guys are confusing that stuff.
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Post by lisaann on Jul 8, 2015 15:28:18 GMT -5
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