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Post by desertwoman on Oct 26, 2019 23:09:29 GMT -5
And I have a lot of pine needles. I'm thinking that might do well with the wood chips layer? meatburner,
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Post by desertwoman on Oct 26, 2019 23:11:16 GMT -5
SpringRain🕊️, I get my wood chips from a tree service company. They give them away for free- you just have to shovel it into your vehicle yourself.
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Post by Mumsey on Oct 27, 2019 4:16:26 GMT -5
desertwoman, Dad used fresh wood chips in 2017 around tomatoes. Then he tilled them in. In 2018 crops grown in that section did poorly, beets, chard, kale, and especially carrots. He had put on the usual manure the previous Fall. I can't help but think those fresh chips affected the nitrogen. He did not use wood chips again in an area to be tilled and the affected area has recovered. He always uses them in the rhubarb paths that are never tilled. I read somewhere that if chips aren't tilled in, they are fine. I also use them in all perennial beds, but only as mulch. They break down naturally. The City and tree services dump wood chips at our city tree dump. Anyone can go get them. I am always careful to be sure there is no walnut in there. I look at leaves in the mix and smell the wood. Most of the time it's pine and maple.
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Post by gardendmpls on Oct 27, 2019 8:53:26 GMT -5
I'll just stick to my chicken compost and hay. Not going to change what works. Wood chips would make sense as a sheet mulch in low water areas, as BTE is supposed to be no watering. I like to take the parts that work for me from any new "method" and discard what doesn't work in my neck of the woods. Most "new" gardening methods are just some combination of composting and mulching with different materials favored, and bed making- digging (or not), edging (or not), thrown in. If I had a chipper, I would use chips from tree and bush trimmings, but not going to spend the money for the little bit of sticks I have.
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Post by SpringRain🕊️ on Oct 27, 2019 13:48:29 GMT -5
desertwoman , Mumsey , I've never turned the chips under, but the one time I did spread them on the ground, it was with bad results. (I've posted this before, but in some ways it supports Mumsey s father's experience). I had a huge pile of fresh wood chips from trees cut down, when, guess what? I got cited by the City for the wood chip pile. So I spread them on the garden. By the end of the season, growth was stunted in most areas or some plants just died. Only the daylilies were able to tolerate the chips, although like foliage on other plants, the leaves did turn yellow. There were Spruce chips in the pile, and probably some junk trees as well. No walnuts. I've got to have some widow makers taken down this year, so perhaps I'll spread the chips all in one area so if they do affect the soil over the winter, it's not the whole garden. The other option might be to spread them over plastic, or tarps, so they "cure" without direct contact with the soil. desertwoman , that's a good thought to get wood chips from a tree cutting company.
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Post by meatburner on Oct 27, 2019 13:58:23 GMT -5
desertwoman, putting layers of compost, coffee grounds, manures, etc first is a great idea. Then cover with wood chips. Adding a thin layer of those same amendment and pine needles on top of the chips speeds up the whole process. Don't cover the chips, just a light dusting is all that is needed.
binnylou, this will work on a hugekulture bed just the same way. I watch a couple different videos that were covered with wood chips and they exploded with growth.
Mumsey makes a great point about committing to using wood chips and NEVER TILL THEM in. It will rob the soil of needed nitrogen and plants will really struggle after that.
A big plus is using the ramial wood chips that come from tree trimmers. There are all sizes of chips from fine to bigger chips. They decompose at different rates while holding the covering on because the chips are all intermingled. I scoop my chips with a pitch fork because they hold together so well.
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Post by desertwoman on Oct 27, 2019 17:16:56 GMT -5
SpringRain🕊️ , Mumsey , meatburner , I use to think the same thing and always passed on the info that wood chips robbed nitrogen from the soil but from what I've read, more recently, it is a myth that wood chips rob nitrogen (or better put, tie up the nitrogen) Perhaps it's the kind of wood that was used in your examples, mumsey and springrain, that caused poor results? I'm just speculating here. My experience in my flower gardens is that they do not stunt plant growth, but I never till them in. They sit on top as mulch and slowly break down. I simply replenish the wood chips once a year and add a sprinkling of manure and/or compost and crushed leaves as I intuit to do.... kind of like cooking- a sprinkle of this, a pinch of that. Do not stir.
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Post by meatburner on Oct 28, 2019 19:34:16 GMT -5
Today I finished putting the garden beds completed for their winter rest. I stopped by Starbucks and picked up about 25 - 30 pounds of spent coffee grounds and put a light dusting of them over the beds. Then, another light dusting of compost/manure mix on top of that. Rain is expected for the next couple of days which is perfect to wash the dusting down into the wood chips. The garden looks great and anxious for the spring planting.
desertwoman, I have never read anything about tilling in wood chip would not tie up the nitrogen. I don't know where you read that, but that goes against everything I have researched.
Replicate what you have been doing in you flower gardens and your vegetable garden will be golden.
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Post by desertwoman on Oct 28, 2019 20:01:31 GMT -5
I had a hard time following the nevers and nots meatburner , to follow your statement. , but I think we are saying the same thing? I probably didn't communicate it clearly enough but I was referring to wood chips as mulch and that there is a myth that wood chip mulch on the soil surface robs the nitrogen. I wasn't referring to chips that get tilled in. If they are tilled in then the amount of available nitrogen decreases.
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Post by meatburner on Oct 28, 2019 20:10:25 GMT -5
desertwomn, got it. If wood chip on the surface rob nitrogen, that is no big deal. The roots are not on the surface so that is not a problem.
Yes, we are saying the same thing.
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Post by gianna on Oct 29, 2019 8:20:14 GMT -5
desertwoman , it's been my strong impression in various readings and videos, that using wood chips in the actual veg beds in dry environments does not work as well as it does in areas that get ample summer rains. Or you could use lots of irrigation - but in my area, water is expensive and in drought-prone areas - wasteful. Under perennials or general drought resistant landscaping there should be no problem and people out here use them to conserve water and to make things more attractive. The Back to Eden method for growing veggies however does not always work everywhere. But mulch of softer materials (leaves, lawn clippings, coffee grounds, animal manures, ground green waste, etc), and cover crops, apparently does - more like it would have been in an actual Eden. In my dry environment, I personally would only use woodchips under trees or on pathways to help control weeds - but in general I prefer even finer ground material for pathways because it's softer to walk on. And I would absolutely never turn woodchips into the soil. But then turning them under is not no-till anyway. As for nitrogen depletion - it apparently is limited to only a thin layer where the chips are in contact with the soil.
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Post by James on Oct 29, 2019 10:54:34 GMT -5
I have never used wood chips for mulch. Around tomatoes I put down newspaper and cover the paper with grass clippings. All garden wastes go back on the garden. If you have an un-planted area it can be spread there or perhaps spread between the corn rows? Some gardeneres keep a compost pile, but I have never done that. Whatever you do, have fun, keep notes (write down planting dates. plant varieties, fertilizers used, insect and disease problems, harvests) and experiment.
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Post by desertwoman on Oct 29, 2019 11:41:05 GMT -5
Good points gianna , Dry environs do have their own needs and reactions, as do different garden beds on the same property. I have had good success with wood chips on perennial beds and around shrubs and I have never tilled those beds. And as gardendmples and you both noted, a particular method doesn't work in all areas and we have to experiment and find what works for us in our own unique settings. Water is always a premium here. Like for gianna it is expensive and I am always looking for ways to not waste this precious resource. I rarely do overhead (from a hose nozzle and/or sprinkler) watering (everything is on drip irrigation). The only time I do an overhead watering is when I use a watering can to bucket water out from the stock tanks I use as rain barrels and from the few rains and snows we get. So I'm beginning to see a picture of what will work best for me: layer "greens" and "browns" on the veggie garden and top mulch with leaves and pine needles as I have been doing; and for perennials rake aside the wood chip mulch in the spring, layer browns and greens and put back the mulch/replenish the wood chips as needed. This is a great discussion as I learn and figure out what is best for me on this high desert plateau, as I refine my no-till gardens.
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Post by gianna on Oct 29, 2019 16:06:51 GMT -5
Dry environs do have their own needs and reactions, as do different garden beds on the same property. About 20 years ago I had a few trees cut and chipped. I wanted to keep my own chips because I knew what the wood was, and that it would be clean. On one spot on a sunny slope, getting only rain water including 7 drought years, some of those chips are still there! - not decomposed yet. That's fine if you don't want to spread chips all that often, but part of the desire for me is to have decomposition to enrich the soil beneath. In other areas that were either irrigated or more level, the chips did break down after a few years. But it was not fast at all. Over the years I have come to not like using wood chips very much at all. Chips are free but so is the ground green waste from the city. I hadnt realized it till this discussion that if a tree trimmer asked if I wanted a load of chips today, I would not want them. The ground stuff from the city works much better IMO. For here. If I had acres to cover however, I'd take anything clean and be happy. When I use the ground stuff in the veg garden as mulch, which I commonly do, I never water from above, but rather run soaker hoses beneath when initially setting up the beds at the beginning of the season - since a main purpose of mulch is to act as an insulation of sorts and to prevent water from passing through it. IMO, the finer particles work much better than larger chips - they form a better mat. And they decompose faster too - much to the pleasure of the worms that love the stuff. Yes, I am biased.
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Post by SpringRain🕊️ on Oct 29, 2019 16:27:04 GMT -5
gianna , perhaps you've hit on the critical factor. My yellowing foliage experience as probably over a decade ago, and I have no recollection of the moisture level that year. None of the chips were tllled or worked into the soil. I used them as mulch. Perhaps I used too many in some places, but I had a massive pile of them.
meatburner ,: 25-30 pounds of coffee grounds....That must have been quite a load of grounds! Did you bring a wheelbarrow?
I think I'll try something different this year. I still need to have some widowmakers taken down. I'll have their wood ground up and lay the chips out around areas with more invasive unwanted plants, just to see if they'll be affected by next year. And the good leaves will go on the garden and floral areas.
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