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Post by gianna on Sept 7, 2019 10:06:54 GMT -5
There is some, but not nearly enough information on using no-till/cover crops in a 'back yard gardening' situation. Most of the information is geared to hard-core farming as more farmers seem to be switching to no-till. That's my impression anyway.
A couple of the farmers have experimented with what they have called 'chaos gardens', where they planted vegetable crops, willy-nilly, into their mixed cover crops in limited areas, and let it all grow together. It certainly was not a well-mannered garden patch (and most of us wouldn't want that in our yards), but with little care, they seemed to be pulling a lot of veggies from these small plots. One had gleaners come in and gave pounds and pounds and pounds of fresh produce to their local food bank. The veggies seemed to be mostly cucurbits.
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Post by SpringRain🕊️ on Sept 7, 2019 18:11:17 GMT -5
gianna , you raise a lot of good issues which I'd like to think about and address later, but one thing I do want to ask now is if you've planted buckwheat before, and if so, did it attract cardinals? I planted it once, in a bed aboutr 12' by 12'. One day I sauntered through the garden and found about a dozen cardinals in that bed.
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Post by gianna on Sept 10, 2019 0:20:48 GMT -5
gianna , you raise a lot of good issues which I'd like to think about and address later, but one thing I do want to ask now is if you've planted buckwheat before, and if so, did it attract cardinals? I planted it once, in a bed aboutr 12' by 12'. One day I sauntered through the garden and found about a dozen cardinals in that bed. Hi, yes, I was able to plant buckwheat in 3 or 4 beds 2-3 years ago before our drought got really bad. It formed a nice cover with lots of nice white blooms, but I did not notice it attracting many birds. Lots of bees, yes. We do not have cardinals in my area. I have planted buckwheat in some of my beds and will watch more carefully to see what they attract.
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Post by desertwoman on Oct 9, 2019 21:36:34 GMT -5
gianna , I was thinking of you today, as I cleaned my veggie garden. I know people grow cover crops and leave the roots (we did this at our orchard years ago). Can I do this with any veggie garden plants too? Today I cut back all the tomatoes, tomatillos, pumpkin, lettuce and sunflower stalks (that birds have picked clean) to the ground and left the roots in the soil. I will pull them only if I learn differently.
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Post by gianna on Oct 9, 2019 23:28:46 GMT -5
I know people grow cover crops and leave the roots (we did this at our orchard years ago). Can I do this with any veggie garden plants too? Today I cut back all the tomatoes, tomatillos, pumpkin, lettuce and sunflower stalks (that birds have picked clean) to the ground and left the roots in the soil. I will pull them only if I learn differently. From what I've seen in videos, 'they' leave all roots of everything in the soil at ground level. Perhaps if there was some horrible disease issue, that might be different. But I've not heard anyone mention that. I even leave the roots of the few weeds that have grown. I have on rare occasion pulled a plant base, but only after it had been clipped and dead and almost totally decayed for a year, and only when that small bit of woody base was in the way for the next planting. I'm now eyeing one of my pepper beds and looking forward to clipping it all off at the base too, just to do it - even before they are dead, even before the season is over here. But I told myself 'no, not yet'. I have been very pleased with the results of this version of 'no till'. Better than I had hoped.
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Post by desertwoman on Oct 12, 2019 0:22:10 GMT -5
Thanks gianna, this is a great new experiment! I will leave the roots of those plants I mentioned and see what transpires.
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Post by desertwoman on Oct 26, 2019 13:01:00 GMT -5
hey meatburner , I was remembering that you switched to the Back To Eden method and looked through some old posts here, but I'm still not clear on what the difference is with BTE - how it differs from simply no-till, or the lasagna method. Are they all basically all the same? Could you enlighten me more?
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Post by gardendmpls on Oct 26, 2019 21:01:00 GMT -5
Desertwoman, I decided to look this up. The first site froze up my computer and had to restart Chrome. Found a better one that explained it plus potential problems. Seems that it is a no till with compost and then a sheet mulch of wood chips. Here is the good site I found (don't want to freeze up your computer, so won't give you that one): northernhomestead.com/challenges-with-the-back-to-eden-method/
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Post by meatburner on Oct 26, 2019 22:11:57 GMT -5
Hi desertwoman, the concept is basically the same in that you are layering organic matter on top and never till. The organic matter decomposes and becomes rich soil. I actually started some beds using the lasagna method for a couple of years before covering with ramial wood chips and those beds are awesome. When I say wood chips, a lot of people are confused by that. The chips are chipped limbs, not logs, that are maybe 80% needles and leaves that have composed for at about a year. Even longer is better. The rain washes the compost tea down into the root zone. Dryer climates may need to water more often but my area gets an average of 40 plus inches of annual rainfall so I never water or fertilize. The chips are almost like a course compost, if that makes sense. Adding once a year in the fall is all that is needed. Even at the end of the year, there is still a thin layer of uncomposted chips on top that is acting like a mulch. I hope that helps a little.
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Post by desertwoman on Oct 26, 2019 22:20:24 GMT -5
meatburner , That helps a lot. So it sounds like the main difference is using ramial wood chips in BTE. I've been doing that with my flower beds for years and didn't know I was doing BTE method with them! I'm excited to try that with my veggie garden and will do that as I put it to bed this Fall. Definitely will have to water, though- nowhere near 40" annually here. 13" if we're lucky!
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Post by SpringRain🕊️ on Oct 26, 2019 22:41:42 GMT -5
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Post by meatburner on Oct 26, 2019 22:51:30 GMT -5
LOL desertwoman. My guess is that you only needed to add the chips once a year. Especially the first year, you will need to water and fertilize some. That's okay. The second year will will be even better and less, if any fertilizer. I would think your climate would dictate some watering every year but think you will find out it will be much less watering needed than normal gardening. That would be a big plus in your climate. I just got my beds covered and put to bed for the winter this week. The sooner the better. Adding some ammendments like compost, coffee grounds, grass clippings, ground up leaves on top of the chips will help tremendously. Only use thin layers on top. Think of it more like a dusting of the layers that don't cover the chips completely.
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Post by meatburner on Oct 26, 2019 22:59:13 GMT -5
springrain, I do have a chipper/shedder but only use it for materials around the house. It produces too small of chips to cover the entire garden so I use the fall leaves and trimmed branches as a thin layer to top dress the garden. I get the ramial wood chips that are larger sized chips. The folks that trim trees and right-of-ways chip larger sizes that are perfect for the garden. Too small will get crusty.
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Post by desertwoman on Oct 26, 2019 23:07:11 GMT -5
You're right, meatburner, my flower beds get wood chips once a year. In my veggie garden I have been no till for 3 years now. I just added a layer of compost and manure and a sprinkling of coffee grounds and was getting ready to put down crushed leaves as mulch. So as a first year, do you think I can still do that and then add the wood chips on top for the winter?
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Post by binnylou on Oct 26, 2019 23:08:27 GMT -5
meatburner, some of my raised bed are hugelkulture beds. Would BTE work in those beds or would that be too much wood?
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