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Post by gardendmpls on Aug 25, 2019 9:47:06 GMT -5
Although the article from Theresa was how to start a garden bed, once started, the main thing is not to walk on it so you never have to till it after starting it.
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Post by gianna on Aug 25, 2019 10:52:27 GMT -5
Theresa Tendingmygarden has been saying this for years I'm unfamiliar with her. Ruth Stout was another 'old time' gardener who just piled hay/straw on the soil, and planted into it successsfully. I think another gardener who helped begin the popularization of no till is Fukuoka in Japan. I dont know the history of how no till began to become popular - but I'm glad it has. Some of the market gardeners also use a form of tilling to establish their beds the first time. Then stop. From what I've seen, they have tended to use a boardfork more to fluff the soil rather than turn it. But once their beds are established, they stop using the broadfork. Charles Dowding does walk on his beds, but only lightly on occasion. He says in established no dig beds, the soil structure is so sound, it does not hurt them. I've been conditioned to not walk on my beds however, so I don't. My no till beds are not as old has his. IIRC, his current no till beds are 8 years old.
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Post by gianna on Aug 25, 2019 11:40:07 GMT -5
Just some thoughts... It strikes me that there are 4 'groups' who are using (experimenting?) with no till. Farmers of acreage, market gardeners, permaculture enthusiasts, and home gardeners.
Some larger scale farmers are employing the technique, and are at the forefront of the hardcore learning. They need to make a profit since that is their income, and have more money and the weight of science behind them in the form of a mix of various gov. subsidies, university scientists, environmentalists, and various farming organizations. etc. I think some the best scientific information is coming out of this mix of shared interests. Many are not however organic, though the trend seems to be using fewer 'inputs'.
There are smaller market gardeners, farming a dozen acres, more or less, mostly organic, that utilize more hand labor and grow mostly short duration, high return crops, with frequent turn-over of what they grow. They supply CFAs, farmers' markets, restaurant chefs, and farm stands. Their no till beds are fertile, they use lots of higher quality compost, and their beds can be planted into immediately with minimal preparation.
Those into permaculture are into sustainable, varied crops/perennials/food forests/swales, etc, and perhaps are not as financially successful. It's my impression, and I could be wrong, but they seem more 'hippie', and often a bit too Woo-Woo for my tastes. Not all of course.
The last group are home gardeners. The various 'studies' have not been geared to our smaller circumstances, and those who choose to pursue no dig have to adapt what the 'big boys' are doing to our smaller beds. Dowding in the UK might be the closest, most applicable, though he is also a market gardener. I think however using practices such as composting, mulching, cover crops are entirely adaptable to a smaller scale no dig method. Enhancing soil biology as much as possible is available to everyone. It's a matter of finding what works in each of our gardening situations and climates.
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Post by gianna on Aug 28, 2019 10:34:18 GMT -5
(Note - I just changed the title of this thread to "No-till and cover crops" from "No-dig or no-till gardening?") I'm coming to realize that a big part of my no till gardening practice is going to be the utilization of cover crops. Not only do I want to have gardening become physically easier, but also to continue to improve my soil. Many of the 'experts' I have come to believe keep saying 'keep a living root in the soil' as long as possible. This keeps the living soil web in good health by having living plants photosynthesizing and supplying the underground microbe army with food. Also, by keeping a cover crop growing between crops to harvest or pretty flowers, the energy from the sun and CO2 and N from the air is continually 'harvested', hence building more and more organic matter and nutrients to even further enrich the soil. It's an upward spiral. I just got more seeds to plant cover crops in my beds yesterday. Also got some mung bean seeds from the grocery - these are supposed to be pretty good too. Going into the fall/winter, and hopefully rains, I'm planning on having at least 6 beds planned in CCs. These will eventually be 'terminated' (cut by hand with hedge shears) and covered with a tarp for a month or two to decompose, compost added to the top, but not tilled in. Then planted in next season. Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I'm very enthused about this technique - it just makes so much sense. I've used parts of all of this before, but our lengthy drought and water restrictions prevented full transition. And now I'm going for it.
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Post by desertwoman on Aug 28, 2019 11:07:22 GMT -5
Your enthusiasm is wonderful gianna, and I am learning from you. Roots is my next step.
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Post by SpringRain🕊️ on Aug 28, 2019 11:31:40 GMT -5
gianna , I'm enjoying reading about your plans. I'm wondering also if you had considered grains as a cover crop? I've only planted buckwheat, but it wasn't as a cover crop, it was with the intent of making buckwheat flour. But the cardinals loved the buckwheat, so I just let it grow to feed the birds. I'd still like to start this again, but some of the beds are thick with unwanted volunteers and I'm not sure the buckwheat or other grain could even get started. This is an interesting discussion.
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Post by gianna on Aug 28, 2019 23:23:18 GMT -5
gianna , I'm enjoying reading about your plans. I'm wondering also if you had considered grains as a cover crop? I've only planted buckwheat, but it wasn't as a cover crop, it was with the intent of making buckwheat flour. But the cardinals loved the buckwheat, so I just let it grow to feed the birds. I'd still like to start this again, but some of the beds are thick with unwanted volunteers and I'm not sure the buckwheat or other grain could even get started. This is an interesting discussion. Thanks. Yes, I have considered grains, and in effect, do use them. But only because naturalized annual Mediterranean grasses come up in most of the beds anyway. I'll just leave them this time. Because I only use hand labor, they are less easy to deal with. Instead of a single tap root that can be clipped at the base, most mature grasses have fibrous roots that are much more difficult to cut by hand with clippers They can be pulled, but that disturbs the soil, which I dont want to be doing. I was thinking of trying to remove them using a serrated knife cutting just below the soil surface, so we'll see. But thinking about it, if I cut everything low with the hedge sheers in a couple months, and then cover the area with a tarp for things to die and decompose for a couple more months, I really wont need to be doing much cutting at soil level. I was also concerned that purchased grains might become weedy, but most likely if they were prone to becoming weeds here, that would have happened long ago. I like growing buckwheat too. I like the flowers, and so do the bees. They do not reseed for me, though in one bed the next year I had a scant few come back. I think the birds or mice ate any seed that set. I had been planning on collecting it to reseed other beds myself, but that did not work. I do currently have some comiing up now that I planted this month, but the bunnies were snacking on them, so I covered them with wire. Have you thought of using your 'unwanted volunteers' as a current cover crop? They have living roots in the soil. They are photosynthesizing and coverting sunlight and CO2 into organic matter. Can you cut them before they set seed and compost them in place? I covered a very weedy bed last year with a tarp, and the soil beneath a couple months later was wonderful. Unless it's particularly noxious, I'm planning on leaving any weeds that grow my cover crop beds right along side my official CC plants.
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Post by oliverman on Aug 28, 2019 23:42:33 GMT -5
As one of the "larger farmers" I will say this. Continuous no till organic is far from a feasible system on a large scale YET. We are making progress in that direction though. I have been planting winter rye in the fall and smashing it down and planting soybeans at the same time. If the rye is at anthesis (shedding pollen) it does. Basically I am growing straw mulch in the field. It works fairly well, but perennial weeds begin to invade. Corn no till planted into a mulch cover crop doesn't work well without synthetic nitrogen fertilizer to overcome the high C:N ratio of the mulch.
Cover crops are a big help though, even with some years of shallow tillage.
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Post by SpringRain🕊️ on Aug 29, 2019 5:34:16 GMT -5
gianna , the "unwanted volunteers" have created such a thick cover crop that it's a major effort to remove them, as they overrun everything. In addition, as I've posted here periodically, the city in which I live has a very strict code enforcement policy, prohibiting everything but what the code enforcement staff recognizes as flowers, vegetables, or ornamentals, from growing over 7 or 8" high (don't remember which right now).
I've spent a lot of money cutting down volunteers, and they're so thick now that I can't even scuffle hoe them loose. I have between 6 and 7,000 square feet in the garden, and it's become overwhelming just to keep the volunteer cover crops from spreading and invading. In addition, invasive plants have moved in, including Virginia creeper and bindweed. Those HAVE to go!
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Post by gianna on Aug 31, 2019 18:15:27 GMT -5
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Post by gianna on Aug 31, 2019 18:21:21 GMT -5
As one of the "larger farmers" I will say this. Continuous no till organic is far from a feasible system on a large scale YET. We are making progress in that direction though. I've watched a great many videos on no till farming and can see where especially in an organic setting, it would be extremely challenging. Just so many variables. Good luck to you! I can see it being far more feasible in a garden setting when most of the work is done by hand, only small areas are involved, and problems can be addressed 'up close'. But if one is trying to make a living for the family, that's much less feasible. My Mom's extended family were all farmers in N. Indiana many years ago, and they worked very hard. Corn, soybeans, and sometimes wheat were the crops I remember them growing. It would have been quite mentally challenging to begin growing with the new techniques, even though very promising and with great rewards in terms of soil fertility.
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Post by gianna on Aug 31, 2019 18:38:08 GMT -5
gianna , the "unwanted volunteers" have created such a thick cover crop that it's a major effort to remove them, as they overrun everything. In addition, as I've posted here periodically, the city in which I live has a very strict code enforcement policy, prohibiting everything but what the code enforcement staff recognizes as flowers, vegetables, or ornamentals, from growing over 7 or 8" high (don't remember which right now).
I've spent a lot of money cutting down volunteers, and they're so thick now that I can't even scuffle hoe them loose. I have between 6 and 7,000 square feet in the garden, and it's become overwhelming just to keep the volunteer cover crops from spreading and invading. In addition, invasive plants have moved in, including Virginia creeper and bindweed. Those HAVE to go! It sounds as if your weed situation is much different than here. Since you get summer rains, they just keep going and sound far worse. Here weeds will start to grow with the first rains, then go downhill as it gets dry. When I'm working in the garden in summer, most of the weeds are gone, and not many new ones come up in the beds that get water because of the deep mulch. We have a few perennial weeds, but unless they get irrigation, they slow down in summer too. We have one 'enforcement' with respect to weeds and that is for fire concerns. After the winter rains, and the weeds dry in May/June/July, we have to have them weed-whacked, (or they will do it for us and make us pay for it). And then we are done for the next half year till the rains begin again. I have about an acre, most of it on a steep hill. It is covered with mostly annual Mediterranean grasses which dry completely and cut easily. It takes one guy one day to cut the hillside.
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Post by SpringRain🕊️ on Aug 31, 2019 20:10:49 GMT -5
gianna, would you like to exchange weeds? I'd be glad to get rid of mine!
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Post by gianna on Sept 7, 2019 9:40:50 GMT -5
gianna, would you like to exchange weeds? I'd be glad to get rid of mine! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I've been preparing and putting in more cover crop into my beds. For me, adding cover crops is an essential part of no-till - great way to add organic matter and keep the soil alive. It's early Sept, so its a great time for this. 4 beds thus far. And as I go, there have been lessons to learn. Arent there always? Two main challenges have been water and critters eating the seeds and seedlings. Water: No rain in summer here, so I water either by hand for containers, or soaker hoses in beds. The CC (cover crop) beds I watered by hand to get the seeds to germinate. But I should have also laid down the soaker hoses before the seeds germinated. Will do that going forward. Second, since I watered the seeds by hand, the soil needed to be more level or there was uneven water distribution, and even some run-off. Not very efficient since I couldnt water as much as I wanted. Solution, to make several small 'rice paddy' areas (with minimal berm walls) within each larger bed, and level the soil as much as possible within each. Did this in the last bed, and it worked well. And after watering in well, lay soaker hoses the length of the bed. Critters: Bunnies eat whatever comes up.. solution, low bunny fences around the entire bed. Birds eat or pull seedlings. The bunny fence helps, but am thinking I might try seeding more heavily. I really dont mind the birds getting some - if they are willing to share. The last bed I also covered with a length of netting to slow them down. They were picking over the bed within hours of seeding it. I'm also thinking of adding inexpensive bird seed to my mix - not to encourage them, but to add bulk of greenery in the form of various grasses the bird seed will bring. There are also mice (?) that can get through the bunny fences and eat the seedlings. Not sure what to do about these. Perhaps sowing more thickly will help. Or just live with it. Or see what they dont eat and plant more heavily those seeds they dont eat. Oh yes. The other problem - at first I just scattered the seed on top and lightly scuffed it in. Not good enough. For larger seeds now I'll pull back the soil about an inch, then scatter larger seeds, water, and cover with the soil. Not pristinely 'no till', but close enough. For smaller seeds, I'll still sprinkle on the soil surface and lightly rake over the top and water. The seeds I'm using: Extra and often 'old' veg seed including kohlrabi, broccoli, radish, cilantro, various greens such as bok choi, etc. Also grocery store-bought bulk seeds such as mung bean, cow pea, lentils. Also extra seeds from growing microgreens - mainly sunflower and various pea seeds. And purchased cover crop seeds - Austrian peas, buckwheat, hairy vetch. I'm also planting some flower seeds separately and when larger, going to plant these into the cover crop mix. Zinnia, sunflower, phacelia, sunn hemp (a legume), stock, sweet peas, and whatever other seeds I still have. Hopefully seeds already in the ground will keep germinating - Cal poppies, calendula, bachelor buttons, arugula, misc grasses, and various not horrible weeds. It's a work in progress. There seems to be good germination in the variety of seeds planted. Each bed has a different mix as I kept adding new ones. When they grow larger, most likely there will be good enough coverage. Except for the very first bed which got hard-hit by the bunnies, and is still vulnerable.
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Post by gianna on Sept 7, 2019 9:55:39 GMT -5
Experiments in no-till/cover crops.
Since one of the ideas behind using cover crops is to keep a living root in the soil at all times to promote healthy soil, why not use regular crop seeds that one can eat as opposed to those just for flowers or vegetative growth?
With this in mind, the last two beds i planted a row of peas down the center that will have support for growing, and the more complex cover crop mix in bands a foot wide on the sides. I didnt want the peas seeds to be smothered by the over cover crops. No reason to not have cake and eat it too. Or in this case, peas.
The peas are up and looking good. These I had covered with little wire cages as a bird deterrent. With bunny fencing around the entire perimeter. This is the bed where most likely the mice are getting through the bunny fencing and eating other seedlings. Oh well. Or maybe they are just not all up yet.
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