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Post by lisaann on Apr 21, 2015 18:32:05 GMT -5
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Post by kimmsr🕊 on Apr 23, 2015 6:23:22 GMT -5
This is not by any means comprehensive, because it is becoming difficult to find this information, but some nutrients that interfere with a plants ability to use other nutrients are: Phosphorus - can interfere with Cobalt, Iron, and Zinc. Potash can interfere with the use of Nitrogen. Calcium can interfere with Magnesium and Magnesium can interfere with Calcium. Zinc and Copper can interfere with the use of Iron and Magnesium. Either I am not asking the question right or Google is not able to find what I am looking for, but I get a lot of information about nutrients in humans and nothing in gardens. My MSU CES horticulturist also has trouble finding references to that although she remembers some discussion about it when she was in college.
The article from Fine Gardening magazine by Lee Reich is a very good article on which nutrients are most readily available at which soil pH, and it shows what I have said before that most nutrients are most readily available when the soil pH is in the 6.0 to 7.0 range. That is not to say that some plants need a different soil pH, but most all plants will grow most bestest if the soil pH is 6.0 to 7.0.
tbird, that bag labeled "topsoil" may or may not be. What I have found over the years is that most people think "topsoil" is loam and it is not. What passes for "topsoil" in New England is not the same as what passes for "topsoil" in New Mexico. So what is your definition of "topsoil"? |
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Post by desertwoman on Apr 23, 2015 9:43:13 GMT -5
Kimm is right. Top soil in New Mexico is, lean sad looking stuff. A very pale reddish-brown.
It takes real dedication to grow rich, dark soil.
In fact, when I was a renter in my early days here I, and many other renters, would take our hard earned soil with us when we moved!
I would move it with my wheelbarrow to the pick up truck and then add it to the new garden spot. Ah those were the days....
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Post by OregonRed on Apr 23, 2015 10:26:47 GMT -5
when I shop for bagged soil, I read the ingredients. a lot of them say: forest debrie or some word like that. in my experience, most soil in a bag is sand and chopped wood - basically
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Post by SpringRain🕊️ on Apr 23, 2015 11:27:04 GMT -5
DW, you are a kindred spirit! I plan to take all my patio stones and bricks as well as most plants when I move, but haven't shared it with anyone as I don't with to defend my desire to take the hardscaping rather than replace it at a higher cost. So I'm delighted to learn that you took your soil with you. Now...I may even consider moving some of my 6000 square feet of soil as well! (  |
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Post by James on Apr 23, 2015 11:27:55 GMT -5
Soil...... I looked in Webster....... stain, defile, corrupt, unclean, dirty...... , but Webster did list topsoil (one word): the upper layer of soil in which plants have most of their roots
I guess we as gardeners, farmers, can make up our own definition of top soil?
Topsoil according to james: That miraculous thin covering of the earth in which our plant roots reside, consisting of clay, silt, sand, gravel, air, water, organic matter, and a host of microscopic organisms, plus a few other things. Its color and texture will vary greatly depending on the rock that its main components came from, and the type and variety of its other components.
It is ridiculous to call anything that comes in a bag Top Soil. It may be called planting medium or pot filler?
I don't grow things in containers, but garden in the soil that was left on my lot by the Creator. It is a clay based loam, quite black in color and several feet deep. Underneath is a sand/gravel layer. The lot has good drainage. I must be very careful to never work this soil when too damp or it turns into hard clods that won't break down all season.
Grow on..... have fun doing it!
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Post by desertwoman on Apr 23, 2015 16:12:22 GMT -5
Go for it, SR!
And when we moved to this house, almost 6 years ago, I thinned out perennials at the old place (still leaving the gardens looking great).
I estimated that if I had gone to a nursery and bought the size containers I dug up I would have spent about $1400.00!!
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Post by lisaann on Apr 23, 2015 16:33:25 GMT -5
Thanks Kimm,
When I posed the question, about nutrients and ph levels, I totally forgot about nutrients that affect other nutrients when one is at a higher level than another or off balance somehow.
And I should have saved your very good explanation back in 2011 to me when you examined my soil test. I didn't save it because you said I looked great on different nutrient levels, but you did explain to others about how nutrients affect each other.
I am so sad that I did not save that thread.
Well, we all thought all our stuff would still be here today and forever. Silly us!
Spring Rain,
I didn't know you were moving. I must have missed the thread. I told hubby, if I ever have to move from here, leave everything in the house, but my pictures and haul my soil. I can buy new chairs! hahahaha
James,
You can't work in our native soil around here when it is wet. You would just create big hard lumps! hahahahah
What happens when you work in wet sandy soil? I'd like to see that. Maybe nothing happens? Tell me!
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Post by kimmsr🕊 on Apr 24, 2015 6:25:45 GMT -5
Several sources define "topsoil" as the top 4 to 6 inches of soil, sometimes adding that it may, or may not, contain some organic matter. Many people seem to think that "Topsoil" is a magic elixir that will solve every gardening problem there is but I have seen stuff so9ld as "topsoil" that I would not pay money for, spent foundry sand (hey!, It's black), a mix of sand and dredgings from the bottom of a lake with some lime added to bring the pH to 7.0, a mix that is close to what loam is. If someone cannot define what they mean by "topsoil" then they probably should not tell someone else to buy any.
Some of the stuff sold in bags and labeled as "topsoil" is not worth even the $1.89 charged for it. |
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Post by octave on Apr 24, 2015 6:36:07 GMT -5
Top soil is also what gets dug up when graves are excavated.
I know that cemeteries have piles of top soil that are available for free.
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Post by brownrexx on Apr 24, 2015 8:02:11 GMT -5
I would never have thought of that.
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Post by SpringRain🕊️ on Apr 24, 2015 9:03:38 GMT -5
DW, the cost of replacing all my plants is one of the factors in moving them, as well as the hardscape. In addition, when I bought the hundreds of patio stones, dug up the bricks, and laid them all out, I was much, much younger. The thought of going to a store and buying all of those stones again is one I would rather push to the back of my mind, or rather out of it. And hauling all those stones wasn't easy. Lots of backaches!!
There's also the attachment I feel to the plants. The trilliums and lemon balm were grown and given to me by my mother. They have special meaning for me and I couldn't just leave them.
Lisa, I don't have immediate plans to move and actually wouldn't be able to now even though I desperately want to get out of this city. With my time split between taking care of my father and the aging me, it's not possible to get the house in shape for sale. But...eventually...and you'll hear the "hallelujahs I'm out of this restrictive city" all the way to Maryland once I go!
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Post by gakaren on Apr 24, 2015 22:26:00 GMT -5
I got some "free" topsoil a few years back from the road dept. They were repairing/replacing part of a culvert & road over it and needed some good clay that would stay in place instead of the nice black soil that was there. So we traded. They came & got several loads of both red & gray clay from our place (DH had dug a deep hole to burn stumps in, about 15' deep) and then they brought us the stuff they dug out. But I don't think anyone would claim that our land has even a tiny layer of topsoil in many areas....it is hard clay that acts like concrete. Now if you go to the back, down in our bottom area where the creek used to flood, there is loamy soil down there....but it won't hold moisture or anything else....OM disappears over-night it seems....not something you want to fight with to plant any kind of garden....LOTS of sand in it.
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Post by kimmsr🕊 on Apr 25, 2015 7:04:25 GMT -5
Keeping in mind that "topsoil" is simply the top 4 to 6 inches of soil one should still look closely at free "topsoil" since it may not be anything worthwhile for the garden.
There is nothing magical about anything labeled "topsoil". and that term has been so overused as to become meaning less. I realize that it may take some time for some to reset their minds but if one actually thinks about that they will. |
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Post by lisaann on Apr 25, 2015 7:45:46 GMT -5
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