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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 12:06:03 GMT -5
so Mumsey are you saying my wife and I should pack up and move to Iowa to get away from all this Pennsyvania clay "soil" lol I wish there was good soil around here.
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Post by desertwoman on Jun 29, 2015 12:52:26 GMT -5
I have clay soil as a base, as well, pa. You can turn it into good soil in a year or two.
Keep adding organic matter to your soil and it will be beautiful. Brownrexx (who is also in PA) put out a sign that says "Bagged leaves wanted" and she had a whole lot of them dropped off at her driveway. Add grass clippings, used coffee grounds (Starbucks has a Grounds to Garden program and recycles coffee grounds for us to pick up- or any coffee house), And don't forget some manure if you can get it. Whatever you can get your hands on- keep adding all the organic matter you can. BR is also big on adding straw, which she uses for mulch.
I have a lot of leaves so that is mostly what my "browns" are . I use them for mulch, as well, and then what is left gets turned in at the end of the season. Feeding the soil with organic matter can be all that you ever need.
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Post by tbird on Jun 29, 2015 12:52:46 GMT -5
I use leaf mulch, grass, straw, compost. I really think it's the excessive rain! Soil in Iowa is pretty darn near perfect to begin with. This is the first time I have really noticed a difference in beet flavor, have always had good luck with Cylindra. Dad is growing regular detroit beets, will be interesting to see how his turn out. He is only 30 miles away and they have had more rain than we have. Do let us know!
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Post by tbird on Jun 29, 2015 13:09:52 GMT -5
I have clay soil as a base, as well, pa. You can turn it into good soil in a year or two. Keep adding organic matter to your soil and it will be beautiful. Brownrexx (who is also in PA) put out a sign that says "Bagged leaves wanted" and she had a whole lot of them dropped off at her driveway. Add grass clippings, used coffee grounds (Starbucks has a Grounds to Garden program and recycles coffee grounds for us to pick up- or any coffee house), And don't forget some manure if you can get it. Whatever you can get your hands on- keep adding all the organic matter you can. BR is also big on adding straw, which she uses for mulch. I have a lot of leaves so that is mostly what my "browns" are . I use them for mulch, as well, and then what is left gets turned in at the end of the season. Feeding the soil with organic matter can be all that you ever need. I've been working for years and it doesn't work so quickly. I compost all our scraps, all weed stuff, etc. In the beginning, I also purchase large quantities of amendment's. ....including once, 10 cubic yards of horse manure! But the truck was too big for my driveway, to get into back, it got dumped in the driveway, and took me 3 years to wheelbarrel it where it was to go! My poor neighbours! Lol. (See how wacky I am, ) Anyhoo, still not super great soil. Hoping the comfrey helps, but texture wise, could carve bricks out if, dry and build a house, lol!
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Post by desertwoman on Jun 29, 2015 13:21:32 GMT -5
hmmm is there such a thing as different kinds of clay soil? I always thought clay was clay, but maybe there are degrees of it? Mine responds quickly. Lucky me, I guess!
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Post by OregonRed on Jun 29, 2015 13:30:32 GMT -5
I notice how many CG people only shallow water - I choose to deep water less often...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 13:41:32 GMT -5
I just built my own soil in raised beds because I have a small yard. If I had more space I would work directly in the native soil but raised beds are so much quicker. I'm thinking about building a large raised bed at my moms house this fall. She has a pretty big yard so I may just start working on the soil that's already there instead. I'm just not sure yet.
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Post by tbird on Jun 29, 2015 13:41:39 GMT -5
hmmm is there such a thing as different kinds of clay soil? I always thought clay was clay, but maybe there are degrees of it? Mine responds quickly. Lucky me, I guess! I'm sure there are degrees, like most things. ...
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Post by claude on Jun 29, 2015 13:58:38 GMT -5
Definitely think that too much water does dilute the flavor. It does w lettuces, splits radishes, the flavor is quite bland with melons and squash as well. JMO
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Post by brownrexx on Jun 29, 2015 14:16:26 GMT -5
Yes, I do have lots of clay and the shredded leaves made a tremendous difference. I also added lots of spent mushroom soil, now called mushroom compost. My soil is now crumbly and dark in color.
I am a fan of working with the native soil rather than buying stuff to make raised beds. I realize that raised beds offer many advantages and are even necessary in certain situations but I have a large property with fairly decent soil to start with although it has a high percentage of clay. I just like just working with what I have. It has been fun for me to see the soil improve over the years as I added things to it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 14:31:26 GMT -5
If you have a large piece of land it makes more sense to work with the existing soil. Raised beds can get expensive. I do love knowing exactly what's in my soil though.
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Post by brownrexx on Jun 29, 2015 14:54:38 GMT -5
With the type of yard that you show, raised beds are very attractive.
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Post by Mumsey on Jun 29, 2015 15:30:15 GMT -5
paorganicgarden, sure come on in! There is plenty of land available!
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Post by tbird on Jun 29, 2015 15:32:43 GMT -5
Nearly all the fall leaves have disappeared. ..they are a 10th the volume they were, even early this spring. I found they broke down much more quickly at my winter coffee grounds dumping point, even though it was mostly freezing temps, so I continued with the coffee grounds onto the leaves throughout this year until may....then I used the grounds elsewhere. I think the grounds keeps critters from veggie scraps...then I mulched the eggplant. ..no more holey leaves... But I'm already so excited to see how much better the soil is in 2016... I also plan to do some hugelkultur...I forgot about that for this year....I will bury it this fall....
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Post by kimmsr🕊 on Jun 30, 2015 5:52:12 GMT -5
"I wish there was good soil around here."
You make good soil wherever you are. Back in the 1960's when we were working on developing certification standards for Michigan Organic Growers we wanted 5 year soil improvement plans and those plans had to be based on knowledge of what the soil was now and what the grower wanted it to be in 5 years. That requires soil tests, because you cannot guess about soil pH or nutrient levels. Since a basic premise of organic growing is that the soil is the most important part of the garden, or farm, the soil has to be made into a good healthy soil so it will grow strong and healthy plants that will be less susceptible to attack by insect pests and plant diseases. Those are the reasons I encourage people to have a good reliable soil test done and to take a good, in depth, look at the soil they have with these simple soil tests,
1) Soil test for organic material. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. For example, a good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top. 2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains’ too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up. 3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart. 4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer your soil will smell, to a point. Too much organic matter can be bad as well. 5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy. I find that most people simply never get enough organic mater into the soil they have.
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