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Post by tbird on Mar 29, 2015 10:54:27 GMT -5
so - if any remember - last fall I was really proud of myself for mulching things with the fall leaves. I put brown paper down and then the leaves as weeds have been an issue with me being distracted and not planting alot and no fall mulching I think 2 years in a row.
But - it is hard to get anything put in for spring now :^/
The brown paper did not disintegrate as quickly as expected......so the worms never got to the leaves and maybe - the leaves were kept too dry? idk.
It's a lot of work to clear the leaves and then pull up the paper to plant, and I don't want to strip the whole bed of everything. And - the job is not done either - still some unwanted grass and other weeds under the paper, so not sure how long to leave things to get some real weed suppression action out of the enterprise.
I thought to punch through the paper and plant some transplants, but there are a lot of worms right under the paper, and so I don't want to hurt them.
I've been pulling back here and there for just what I'm planting in the moment, but then, that area is left unmulched.
Any thoughts or advice?
Did I do the right thing, and just need some more time for the weed suppression?
Should I just do one bed at time as I'm ready to plant, and rip off the whole thing, remulching with the paper and leaves I took off?
what about with seed planting?
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Post by kimmsr🕊 on Mar 30, 2015 5:58:28 GMT -5
As the temperatures dropped last fall the Soil Food Web slowed down and in some places stopped working altogether which helps explain why your paper did not get digested as quickly as expected. As the temperatures dropped the earthworms moved deeper into the soil and maybe went dormant, since they do not like cold weather.
Punching through the paper and planting is the right thing to do, there is no real good reason to remove the paper and leaves to plant seedlings although seeds may require that be done.
If the mulch needs to be pulled back to plant then it can be put back in place after if seedlings are put in or a bit later if seeds are put in. |
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Post by brownrexx on Mar 30, 2015 8:33:04 GMT -5
I have never had good luck with newspaper or cardboard like so many people here recommend.
One year I covered my entire garden with cardboard and then a layer of straw. The straw tended to blow away and I had to gather up all of the cardboard in the spring and throw it away. It was hardly deteriorated at all.
It just didn't work for me and when I tried newspapers, they kept drying out and blowing around the yard. We get lots of wind here.
I am very happy with using just the straw or shredded leaves and it works well for me. I just pull the mulch back in the spring, plant my seeds or seedlings and then pull the mulch back into place. It keeps my soil nice and moist and does not blow around much. |
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Post by desertwoman on Mar 30, 2015 9:07:00 GMT -5
I love the idea of cardboard and newspaper but it hasn't worked for me, as well.
Perhaps we haven't put a deep enough mulch over it?
My several inches of shredded leaves works well for me
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Post by tbird on Mar 30, 2015 9:31:10 GMT -5
I have no problem with it moving about, I have raised beds and the soil level is several inches below the top (despite filling it all the time, lol!) so it is shielded Then I have 6 or more inches of leaves on top of that. I think that as Kim suggested, the processes are somewhat suspended in the very cold weather, and there hasn't been enough of spring yet to do any rotting of the material....Initially - I was worried that the paper had kept the worms from the leaves, but as Kim said - likely they would only just be getting started on that too. I had put as much comfrey on the beds as I has available - I can't remember which ones got the comfrey and which didn't now! Time to start that journal thing! But I did pull up one area where the paper was nearly rotted through on the first layer...I have those large brown paper leave bags on - so 2 layers - I didn't rip open the bags. Maybe next year - I will rip open for fewer layer depending on the outcome of this year. I think the part with rotting is the effect of the comfrey - which rots quickly. As I am very sensitive to not hurting my worm friends, I think that what I will do for seedlings is that I will pull the paper up from a particular area the day before planting, allow the worms to go lower, then put the paper back and punch through for the seedlings. It's planting the seeds that is more problematic. I have some peas and spinach thus far, but now that dirt is bare. I guess - for the weed prevention action I was looking for, I will need to let it all cook for a month or two. As usual - I'm likely too impatient  |
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Post by ecsoehng on Mar 30, 2015 12:06:28 GMT -5
I use the cardboard/mulch method. I don't expect the cardboard to decay over the winter. Sometimes I put soil or additives on top of the cardboard in the spring. It will eventually decay so no reason to remove it but if you are planting seeds I move it off to a different area till they get big.
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Post by tbird on Mar 30, 2015 12:09:00 GMT -5
good idea to add soil on top and plant......
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Post by mrsk on Mar 30, 2015 19:24:29 GMT -5
I am a big user of cardboard, and mulch. My mulch is waste hay, and even though, I run it through the chickens, there is still a lot of weed seed.
The secret to cardboard is to soak it, for more than an hour, and soak your mulch too, then put it down, and cover it with the wet mulch, and it will meld together and stay in place. The beauty for me, is when a weeds seed sprouts, it can not get to the soil, and so is very easy to pull, and become mulch. This really has helped my garden.
to the original poster - it does slow down the warming up of the soil, and it is hard to plant seed in, but all I do is either pull all of the mulch up into piles around my garden, where I will plant the warm season crops, and that exposes the places to warm up for the cool season crops. Then as things start getting established, I re lay it down and add more to it.
Mrs K
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Post by desertwoman on Mar 30, 2015 19:31:18 GMT -5
OK Got it! There is a secret! Soak an hour , soak the mulch, it melds. (  |
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Post by claude on Mar 30, 2015 21:16:16 GMT -5
Soaking is the key..if I see that things are drying out I water it...gently. Keep trying because once it works for you, you will do it always. Also, it's still Indian summer when I start dumping fall leaves on my beds..so I think they have a bit of time for things to start to decompose before winter sets in. And sometimes there is still a piece or two left of the cardboard around planting time. I just add to the mulch after planting.
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Post by gakaren on Mar 30, 2015 23:30:17 GMT -5
I only use cardboard when I first start beds. After that if I want weed suppression I use layers of newspapers. And I too wet those down. I don't have the freezes you gals have, so mine will break down pretty quick...most times within a few months with maybe a piece here/there left. I don't have any leaves to use for mulch so I cover my papers with partially decomposed pine bark....and I'm talking about flower beds, not veggie areas. Veggie areas I use pine straw (needles) and it doesn't break down completely during one season either, but about half of it will. I just rake it off and put it into the compost. This year I have straw! First time I've been able to find it BUT, it's full of wheat seeds...so I'm getting one heck of a crop of wheat! 
But the newspapers work better for me and I also wet the mulch after it is down on top of the papers. |
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Post by kimmsr🕊 on Mar 31, 2015 6:11:40 GMT -5
I have not seen any good reason to wet either newspaper or cardboard before putting any down, I did once and had the paper fall apart before I could lay any down.
The primary purpose of using newspaper or cardboard is to block a plants access to sunlight and given the very large surface area of both wind can pick up any of that paper and blow it around unless the paper is well anchored. A bit of straw, hay, leaves, etc. will not be enough but a very large amount is not necessary either. Both newspaper and cardboard can help extend the amount of things such as straw, hay, leaves, etc. you have since it can take 4 or more inches of those materials to block that sunlight while a couple of inches of any of them often is enough to hold the paper in place.
A recent issue of Fine Gardening magazine had an very good article about mulching by two researchers at Michigan State University and what they found after nine years. One thing they found was that it takes about 3 to 4 inches of mulch to block that sunlight. Less, often suggested by garden writers, simply is not enough, and that is why the paper works. |
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Post by OregonRed on Mar 31, 2015 8:30:47 GMT -5
in my CG, several gardeners put their plot to bed with cardboard held down with bricks and rocks
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Post by tbird on Mar 31, 2015 10:30:38 GMT -5
good info from everyone, thanks!
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Post by ecsoehng on Apr 1, 2015 10:59:31 GMT -5
Kim I think the wetting is to hold it in place in the wind.
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