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Post by tnrookie on Mar 19, 2015 12:34:02 GMT -5
I am a rookie gardener. I have read much about organic and heirloom gardening and want to prepare virgin soil now (late March) for best results for spring of 2016. I live in Northeast TN and have clay soil. I am interested in a small to medium home veggie garden and possibly a small apple orchard. I want to plant green manure to harvest and till under next spring in the veggie plot. Is it to soon to plant it green manure? And any suggestions of what would be best or any general suggestions are very welcome and appreciated!  |
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Post by James on Mar 19, 2015 14:48:59 GMT -5
I would certainly be tempted to till the area and plant this season.
The addition of organic materials to the garden can be done any time as a mulch,
however green manure is probably best stock piled and then added after killing frost
and tilled in before winter. Come Spring you are ready to just go plant. You
may consider a shallow Spring tilling for the later plantings to remove any weeds
that have came up.
I don't like deep tilling in the Springtime. It loses too much water.
However if you are just getting started and the area needs tilled, go
for it. It will be fine. But do plant this Spring.
I too have a clay based soil. I find it beneficial to add some sand and organic
matter to help loosen it up. For sure one never wants to work clay soil when
it is too damp. It just makes big hard clods that won't break down all season.
Clay soils can raise some great crops. Have fun!
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Post by brownrexx on Mar 19, 2015 15:18:35 GMT -5
I also have a clay soil and my first year we removed the sod and roto tilled as much organic material as we could into the soil.
We added grass clippings, old straw, about 30 lbs of free coffee grounds from Starbucks, shredded leaves from the previous Fall, and a pick up truck load of mushroom soil. Add anything and everything unless it has seeds.
And don't overlook James's comment about not working the soil or roto tilling when wet. You will end up with big clods that are hard as rocks and will not break apart until the next season!
I had a very productive garden that first year. Of course it just keeps getting better and better but I would not want to miss this year if I were you.
Plant and harvest a nice garden this summer and if you really want to plant a cover crop do it in the late Summer or Fall |
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Post by octave on Mar 19, 2015 15:43:43 GMT -5
tnrookie, the first year is usually the most productive for a vegetable garden.
You do not need to add a whole lot, unless the soil appears really lean, and certainly do not need to plant green manure yet.
What kind of property do you have? What's currently growing in the area where you would like to garden?
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Post by desertwoman on Mar 19, 2015 15:56:03 GMT -5
I agree! Plant a garden this growing season!!
Our area is also clay base and I have started 4 different gardens in this clay.
Your apple orchard will love green manure too. Grow it under and between the trees and till it in.
I've never added sand (there are differing opinions). I believe that adding a lot of organic matter does what you need it to do.
Do it now, plant for this year then in the fall, add more OM, till it in, cover with a thick leaf mulch and by your second growing season, next year you will be amazed. In the mean time you can have a pretty wonderful first garden and learn all kinds of things for next year
Brown has it covered. Follow her ideas!
And welcome!
Keep coming back with your questions and let us know how it's going!
Lot's of experienced and knowledgeable organic gardeners here who love to share.
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Post by ecsoehng on Mar 19, 2015 17:03:59 GMT -5
You don't say how big a garden you are talking about. If it is a small area you could just cover it with cardboard, add compost and soil or additives to the top and mulch and plant. This is something like lasagna gardening. Here is a link but you can find lots about it if you search it lasagna gardening |
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Post by ncgarden on Mar 19, 2015 17:05:46 GMT -5
Red carolina clay here, and rocks. And just a little bit of soil. My first year I just tilled under the sod, and planted. Zucchini and crookneck, lettuce, spinach - just stuff we like to eat.
I have never done a "green manure" crop as we have lots of organic material (read: horse manure) donated by my horses. But with only a family garden, I would never want to give up a year on the growing season completely. My friends who use the green manure are sold on buckwheat as their crop of choice.
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Post by wheelgarden1 on Mar 19, 2015 18:48:25 GMT -5
As if you need an extra echo, "plant a garden this year!"
And embrace and feed your clay soil. When I first moved here 24 years ago, with a lot of brick-hard red-orange clay, itching to finally have a garden, I got some of the best advice ever from the county agriculture agent: "Our clay soil is loaded with nutrients. All it wants is organic matter." Build a healthy soil and you can't go wrong. Takes time, but meanwhile you're learning and getting fresh vegetables.
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Post by farmerkevin on Mar 19, 2015 22:48:16 GMT -5
Absolutely plant this year. Get a soil test done though. You may find out that your soil is just fine as is I have a mix of decomposing granite and red clay. I planted in the DG and stuff produced well, I just had to water it more. In the red clay, it grew like the DG, but less watering. I mulched my whole yard with pine mulch (cones/twigs and all). My thinking was that when everything matures and drops its leaves, it'll add to the soil (I hardly ever rake). But I gave it a head start by mulching the first year. Now I have worms just about everywhere I dig. And I second the lasagna method. Even top dressing helps. But. And this is a big but! The only way to know is to do it! You'll have a failure or two, a few successes, but most of all, you'll have the knowledge of what works for you |
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Post by kimmsr🕊 on Mar 20, 2015 6:31:58 GMT -5
It is never too soon to plant a green manure crop, but even before that you should have a good reliable soil test done, and your University of Tennessee provides that service. You should know what your soils pH is, and what to do to correct any problem with that, as well as the balance of nutrients and what to do to correct any problems that may exist there as well. ag.tennessee.edu/spp/Pages/soiltesting.aspx
Then there are these simple soil tests that can help you understand more about that soil, 1) Soil test for organic matter. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. For example, a good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top.
2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains’ too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up.
3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart.
4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer your soil will smell, to a point. Too much organic matter can be bad as well.
5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy.
A point about a green manure crop. That is usually grown where it will be put in, ie. the garden plot, not somewhere from which it would be harvested and tilled in somewhere else.
While anyone can plant, and harvest, from about any soil the best results will come from soils that are in good healthy condition. Plants growing in good healthy soil will have fewer problems with insect pests and plant diseases than plants growing in soils that are not good and healthy.
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Post by claude on Mar 20, 2015 6:32:39 GMT -5
Go for it! Just don't till while it's still heavy and wet..you will ruin the tilth of the soil and as Mumsey said you will have big chunks of dry soil or clumps.
Be patient and it will pay off. Pay attention to the information on your seed packets as far as how and when to plant. Welcome!
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canadiyank
Blooming
Central WA, Zone 6B
Posts: 125
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Post by canadiyank on Mar 20, 2015 11:55:13 GMT -5
I have done a green manure as a "holding place" for an area where I couldn't get to that season. My only advice is to get one that does NOT have vetch in it. I have vetch EVERYWHERE now. Arghhh! It's been 5 yrs since I planted that green manure and I just saw some vetch yesterday. Ha ha!
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Post by mrsk on Mar 20, 2015 21:54:53 GMT -5
Plant and see what happens! You won't be out much, you will get to eat something, and then you can start adding.
I have pure sand, have amended it for years, and am a great believer in cardboard, and mulch. A trick to using cardboard is to soak it so that it is throughly wet, and cover it with wet mulch, it will all meld together and not blow away. Drastically cuts down on tilling and weeds.
Mrs K
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Post by ahntjudy on Mar 20, 2015 22:24:03 GMT -5
I would just add that when you do get planted, as others mentioned, keep thick mulch on your garden.
Makes a huge difference in the moisture retention of the soil.
Shredded leaves and grass clippings is what I like best.
If you don't already have one, start a compost pile or bin.
You'll have an amazing garden!
They all are!
They don't have to be perfect.
Great soil sometimes takes time.
Do your best and enjoy it!
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Post by SpringRain🕊️ on Mar 20, 2015 22:32:54 GMT -5
I think you'll find it hard to plan for a 2016 garden without experimenting this year. The fresh air, the smell of the freshly turned earth, and the temptation to see what you can produce will lure you in before you realize it and you'll be grabbing your seed packets and shovel and heading out to plant!
Seriously, one of the benefits of planting this year is to get a feel for what's going on with your soil. You don't have to plant a lot - perhaps just a little test garden. You never know - you might have a good harvest. If not, you know what the issues will be and can address them this fall and next year.
When I got started on my garden, I started little by little, one small bed at a time and still got a lot of pleasure even if not everything sprouted or grew successfully. But I also learned that there are some things that just won't grow in my garden. So I don't try with them any more.
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