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Post by desertwoman on Oct 23, 2017 19:46:48 GMT -5
I have always turned my soil once yearly, in the Fall- just a shovels' worth deep, once I've added compost, manure, leaves, etc Then mulched it for the winter.
I'm starting to feel my age! And want to try no till to make it easier for me each Fall. But I need advice from all you experienced no tillers. Should I just layer the various ingredients and then top with my winter mulch?
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Post by davidjp on Oct 23, 2017 20:55:10 GMT -5
You'll be surprised how quickly your compost will disappear. I just pile compost on my beds. I usually scrap the surface with a three pronged cultivator so I suppose I'm not truly no dig but its more to do with the fact that my beds are growing year round and I'm usually adding compost and then planting almost immediately I did double dig the beds to start with. I really don't think there's a need to fully incorporate your compost. It will just get incorporated by itself. I follow this guy on YouTube and have a couple of his books who is a big proponent of no till gardening. He's British so different climate although it corresponds to USDA zone 8 www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WdM__pw7SkHe's run beds side by side dig and no dig and compared yields over the years. That will convince you its really not necessary.
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Post by gianna on Oct 24, 2017 1:40:16 GMT -5
I've watched those same videos, and others, and am switching to no till now as well. There seem to be several ways to improve beds, and I'm not sure which are better for the home gardener. One that really hit my fancy was something the people at Singing Frogs Farm (or something like that) did. They employed cover crops - but there cover crops were not things like vetch or rye, but rather food crops such as collards, beans, etc and frankly any crop they were growing. What they did that was different was when they removed/harvested their crop, they did not pull them, they cut them off at ground level and left the roots in the ground to decay. They were able to increase their organic matter in the soil quite quickly, and plant right into the softening enriched soil and did not disturb the soil at all. They also used mostly transplants so something was always growing and soil organisms 'happy'. The Singing Frog people are in Sebastopol CA. in wine country. www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAn5YxL1PbM&t=256sAnother interesting market gardener who does minimal tilling is JM Fourtier (sp.?) in Canada. One of the things he does is to cover his ground with sheets of black plastic/ground cloth, and they discovered that when organic material was underneath, after a few weeks or so, the ground beneath was filled with worms and very soft and plantable. And no weeds. This past year I planted my large bed of Numex chillies into a no-dig 'prepared' bed. In other words, it was a bed that had been in use, thickly mulched that was decaying, and I planted right into it with no prep at all. Peppers grew just as well as with more prep. No digging, no fluffing, only what was there. Easiest bed I ever planted. I only had to check the soaker hoses to make sure there were no breaks. Right now I'm in the process of preparing beds for either this winter or next spring. And I'm trying different things in each of them. One has about a foot of organic matter over the top, moistened and covered with clear plastic to kill weed seeds. In a week or so, I'll switch that plastic for black and let it just decompose till needed next March. Another bed has a cover crop of arugula (does great here. That bed I'll soon have cruciferous starts to plant into it around the aurugla. Kale, collards, broc, pak choi, cabbage. I don't care if I get much from these - they are intended to cover the soil fast. These sorts of htings do great here in winter. Another bed I planted a cover crop of grocery lentils, buckwheat, sunflowers (from birdseed), and arugula. That bed will be chopped and dropped with roots left in place. Another bed was covered with more organic matter and covered with plastic. This bed had been heavily mulched and was in good shape. I'll plant directly into it too without disturbing the soil at all. I also have a couple other beds to prepare now, and I have compost from last year, and more organic matter to just pile on and cover. And another bed destined to have cover crop. So many beds, so little time. The goal is to never till again, and have really great soil. Sorry if this was disjointed... I'm very enthused about the process... and it's late.
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Post by Mumsey on Oct 24, 2017 3:47:03 GMT -5
I have been doing less digging also. I have never turned beds in Fall except for garlic. The garden is covered with leaves, grass, straw for the winter. I just pull it back, dig a hole and plant. If I need a row, I just hoe a row and go. Seems to be working. I am having some unintentional cover crops this year: volunteer dill, larkspur, various self seeding annuals. I am leaving those and just covering them up. The mulch on last Fall's garlic bed is all but gone now, and there was a bunch of it.
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Post by octave1 on Oct 24, 2017 8:52:05 GMT -5
I don't dig. What I do I these days is plant a cover crop. Come spring, I cut down the cover crop and plant there. Sometime I rake the cuttings and mulch it with a mower, which has a bag. Then I put everything back on the beds. Other times I just let the cuttings sit there untouched. I find it easier than spreading leaves/straw. I do spread compost in the spring on top of those beds. Last fall I started a "temporary" garden since I was moving and reshaping the old one. I put down cardboard, compost and leaves directly on grass, and let it sit there all winter. I then proceeded to plant this past spring. I had a really good yield without turning and/or touching the soil.
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Post by gianna on Oct 24, 2017 11:35:27 GMT -5
I follow this guy on YouTube and have a couple of his books who is a big proponent of no till gardening. He's British so different climate although it corresponds to USDA zone 8 www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WdM__pw7SkHe's run beds side by side dig and no dig and compared yields over the years. That will convince you its really not necessary. I found what he does in his three different beds very imformative. I was especially interested in the beds he merely 'fluffed' (just lifting the soil for aeration, not turning) since that is what I've been doing the past several years thinking it wasn't disturbing the soil that much, and it was easy - then spreading compost/organics on top. The same principle as using a broad fork (which I've always wanted). But apparently in his garden plot, even just aerating the soil was enough to reduce yield. And it's more work (tho not much). I would like to see more replications of this elsewhere just to verify his findings, but still, as they say, it was a lightbulb moment. When you grow up thinking working the soil in some way is necessary for success, it's hard to stop. Yet nature does just fine utilizing only what is in the soil naturally. I wish it wasn't going to be 100F outside today (in late Oct.!!!) or I'd be setting up more beds today.
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Post by gianna on Oct 24, 2017 11:43:48 GMT -5
octave1 , what you describe is exactly what I want to be doing going forward. One complication we have however is water, or lack of it. We won't run out for essential living, but as they allow more building along the coast, and water usage keeps increasing, the various districts just buy more from districts to the north that (at this time) have excess. And that is very expen$ive. Because of this, I'll have to use more mulches (including plastic sheeting), though I would love to keep something growing in the beds at all times. It will be fun seeing what happens going forward.
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Post by gianna on Oct 24, 2017 11:49:44 GMT -5
I am having some unintentional cover crops this year: volunteer dill, larkspur, various self seeding annuals. I am leaving those and just covering them up. Same. There are somethings that just come up and although not intended as cover crops, fulfill the function. Calendula has been coming up here forever and makes a lovely 'cover crop'. Cal poppies too. I now intentionally use arugula for a cc as well, simply because in some areas it just comes up, and now intentionally planted in other areas. It is attractive, grows fast, and has a great root system. There is even a native weed, a legume, that I'm encouraging. I'd love to get more bloomers reseeding and growing too. Or even just plant some in plug flats and set out. Rudbeckia comes to mind - the older more wild-type that does well here. Just love that plant.
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Post by octave1 on Oct 24, 2017 13:42:41 GMT -5
gianna, one way to reduce the amount of water needed is to adopt the hugelkultur method. I am attaching a link so you can read about it: richsoil.com/hugelkultur/It may work for your climate.
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Post by meatburner on Oct 24, 2017 20:15:59 GMT -5
DW, we converted our garden to the BTE (Back To Eden) method about 5 years ago and have never looked back. We do not till at all now. I picked up a pickup load of ramial wood chips today and will add about 4 inches of chips tomorrow topped with a thin layer of our compost and that is done for the year until next year. I watered my garden one time last year and one time the year before. Obviously, your climate will dictate how best to make this method work for you. Getting the right local resources is the key. Just throwing this out for you to think about.
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Post by gianna on Oct 24, 2017 22:50:32 GMT -5
octave1 , I've seen videos with hugelkultur mounds and think they are interesting, but I don't think they would be the best choice for our property. My biggest fear would be the possibility of local rattlers taking up residence. I did have some really old firewood I got rid of last year. I wish I had thought of just burying it, or breaking it down further for mulch. They were all soft and falling apart, and would have been good water retainers. But at the time I just wanted that old wood - and all it's possible critter homes - gone.
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Post by binnylou on Oct 24, 2017 23:01:06 GMT -5
They were all soft and falling apart, We have an old timber across from us and last week, an old tall tree stump went down and took out the power line. After the power company was done with the repair, they pushed the dead tree, which broke into pieces, off the road. It is spongy...if I knew what the tree was, it would make a good bottom layer for the next raised bed. I'd hate for it to be walnut.
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Post by gianna on Oct 25, 2017 22:28:30 GMT -5
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Post by kimmsr🕊 on Oct 26, 2017 5:22:24 GMT -5
"Should I just layer the various ingredients and then top with my winter mulch?"
Yes! As long as your soil has an active Soil Food Web that material will be worked into the soil by them, just not as quickly as you would by tilling it in. Tilling soil will disrupt the Soil Food Web, destroy the mycella the fungi in the soil have worked hard to establish, and disrupt the channels the earthworms have worked to create that can help with soil drainage. As long as the soil has adequate amounts of organic matter in the soil adding more organic material on the surface and leaving it there, not tilling it in, is the best thing you can do for your soil.
Fluffing soil is tilling, even though you do not turn that soil over.
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Post by gianna on Oct 27, 2017 10:22:06 GMT -5
Fluffing soil is tilling, even though you do not turn that soil over. True. But there is 'tillage' and 'TILLAGE'. The gentle tilling using a broadfork where the soil is just lifted, aerated, but not mixed vs tillage using heavy equipment, rototilling or double digging by hand. Many people who consider themselves 'no till' use a broadfork in their gardens. The aeration is said to allow roots of annuals to penetrate more quickly, as well as help organic matter to break down quicker (alla turning a compost heap). Then there are the Kaisers of the Singing Frogs Farm (linked above) that only used a broadfork for a few years to establish their now totally untilled beds. They suggest aerating the soil to 'get started'. But it is their livelihood so they needed make money from their work. For most home gardens making a profit is not a consideration. 'There is more at the store.' One of the aspects of no-till that is appealing is the establishment of a network of mycorrhizal fungi which are said to help transport nutrients from one plant's roots to another. And even gentle aeration is thought to disrupt that. But fungal mycelia grow very quickly. Think how fast their hyphae can take over something in the back of the fridge. I thought Mr Dowlings garden experiment with his parallel beds very interesting, especially the reduction of production in 'fluffed' beds. But will his results in one soil type in SW England be replicated in S. California, or Virginia, or ? My guess would be that in different regions, soils, and climates of the world, results would vary. I think no-till is gaining wider recognition as a viable - not to mention easier - way of gardening/farming. In farming results are not consistent however, for many reasons. Just so many variables, as people discover they must fashion their approach to their local conditions and specific crops. I would guess the same will happen as more home gardeners switch over.
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