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Post by reuben on Jan 19, 2023 17:25:29 GMT -5
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Post by desertwoman on Jan 19, 2023 17:47:43 GMT -5
Having owned an orchard and converting it to certified organic, 25 years ago, we have been against having national standards for organic certification. From our perspective, as big corporations jumped into the organic business, the national standards encouraged those big corporations to lobby for looser standards. Even before the feds got involved we felt the New Mexico standards for certifying organic weren't as strong as we would have liked and we went above and beyond what they required.
This , however, sounds like good news.
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Post by lilolpeapicker on Jan 20, 2023 21:00:39 GMT -5
This was on the news tonight... more rigorous on-site inspections of certified operations. no GMOS No antibiotics no synthetic fertilizers will improve organic integrity across the organic supply chain, and more great news!
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Post by heirloomfan on Jan 23, 2023 9:14:30 GMT -5
I wondered how they discovered these companies that said they were organic actually growing with pesticides and herbicides? Maybe people who worked for these companies turned them in. Most use organic as a healthier option so bad when they really were exposed to the harmful chemicals. Will be interesting to know the names of the companies that did this. Glad I can grow my own organic produce!
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Post by gardendmpls on Jan 23, 2023 11:17:10 GMT -5
A lot of the contaminated produce comes from overseas products labeled organic when it's not. I like that they are adding unannounced visits of inspectors. This is done in kosher certification as a deterent. If the producers know there will be unannounced spot checks and they can lose their certification permenantly, they are less likely to take the chance of losing everything.
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Post by martywny on Jan 23, 2023 14:53:36 GMT -5
This was on the news tonight... more rigorous on-site inspections of certified operations. no GMOS No antibiotics I've heard that many smaller chicken producers will use an antibiotic feed for the first several weeks of feeding. It makes sense to me, but maybe gardendmpls can enlighten us since I know absolutely nothing about antibiotic feed and whether chickens need it or not. I would say our most serious threat comes from outside the country because standards are different and overseas operations are very difficult to monitor. Instead of tax dollars paying for inspecting inbound shipments, add an incremental tariff (the less we find, the lower your tariff) to offset that cost. These measures will hand off the responsibility of strict organic compliance to those who produce. Unannounced inspections are always interesting, I remember those countless times when the entire job site mentality would change the second OSHA pulled into the parking lot for a surprise inspection.
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Post by binnylou on Jan 23, 2023 15:57:01 GMT -5
I worked for a chain grocery. Rarely were inspection visits a surprise. Once a store had an inspector on site, phone calls were made. The next store down the road was made ready.
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Post by lilolpeapicker on Jan 23, 2023 16:40:26 GMT -5
I've heard that many smaller chicken producers will use an antibiotic feed for the first several weeks of feeding. I am sure there are dealers who will use antibiotics but these would not be getting the organic seal. And I would have to disagree with your thought on threats dealing with us, I do believe there are a large group in the US managing to uck up our entire system for profit in mho.
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Post by martywny on Jan 23, 2023 19:30:17 GMT -5
I am sure there are dealers who will use antibiotics but these would not be getting the organic seal. I know that animals need to be treated for parasites, do you think organic parasite control exists and would it be mandated for certified organic? We have an egg farm a couple of miles from the house, they have hundreds of thousands of laying hens and are certified organic, I may be able to talk with one of the owners about it, as I get my bees from him.
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Post by gardendmpls on Jan 23, 2023 20:22:22 GMT -5
many smaller chicken producers will use an antibiotic feed for the first several weeks of feeding Antibiotics without direct veterinary diiagnosis are no longer permitted. What many confuse with antibiotics are coccidiostats, given to young chicks in their feed. Coccidiosis is a parasitic infection of the intestine caused by a protozoan that fastens to the intestinal lining and causes severe weight loss, diarrhea and death. Different types of the parasite can affect dogs, cats, sheep, goats rabbits and cattle. A feed additive called a coccidiostat (common type is amprolium) interferes with the parasite's reproduction. Some parasites remain and then the chick builds up its own immunity, so the anti-microbial is only needed for a short time. The coccidiostat is not considered an antibiotic, but an animal only anti-microbial and is not used in nor does it affect humans. It does not have any relationship with antibiotic resistance, which is the reason antibiotics for animals are now to be used only to treat an infection. I give my chicks medicated feed (feed with amprolium) for the first few weeks after hatching and then going outside because, "Coccidiostats are mainly used to control coccidiosis, maintain intestinal integrity, alleviate pain and suffering and help deliver good bird health and welfare." This quote is from the British Poultry Council: britishpoultry.org.uk/the-truth-about-coccidiostats-and-why-poultry-farmers-need-to-use-them/
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Post by gardendmpls on Jan 23, 2023 21:02:18 GMT -5
Just wanted to add a bit more interesting (at least to some of us) information: "Amprolium is an organic chloride salt having 1-[(4-amino-2-propylpyrimidin-5-yl)methyl]-2-methylpyridin-1-ium as the counterion. Used for prevention of coccidiosis in poultry and cattle. It has a role as a coccidiostat. It is a pyridinium salt and an organic chloride salt. It contains an amprolium(1+)." "The coccidia parasite needs thiamine to reproduce. Amprolium helps to block the uptake of thiamine, essentially starving the parasite. Amprolium is approved by the FDA and has no withdrawal time for either egg or meat production." These are the allowed/not allowed organic medical additives: www.usfarad.org/uploads/5/4/9/6/54966231/farad_organic_treatment_guidelines.pdfGuidelines for organic certification of poultry: www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Poultry%20-%20Guidelines.pdfI could not find anywhere whether amprolium is specifically permitted or prohibited in organic production, although given more time, I might. I did find that there are vaccines against coccidia, but they are not available at all hatcheries. It seems many organic chicken keepers prefer not to give the coccidiostat, but treat the chickens if they become ill.
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Post by gardendmpls on Jan 23, 2023 22:44:29 GMT -5
more rigorous on-site inspections of certified operations. no GMOS No antibiotics no synthetic fertilizers Organic certified can't use antibiotics, however must treat sick animals and then mark them as no longer organic. They can be sold and used as non-organic after a period of withdrawal from the antibiotics. Non-organic producers may not use antibiotics, either, unless prescribed by a veterinarian for a specific illness. They may no longer get antibiotics in feed or over the counter. The following explanation is from the University of Wisconsin (underlines are mine): "Under the new rule, producers with current veterinary client-patient relationships (VCPR) may purchase antibiotics directly from their veterinarian or from a distributor with the vet’s prescription. Local distributors (for example, farm supply stores) are currently evaluating their ability to manage prescription pharmaceuticals in the future. Wisconsin Administrative Code updates will make it easier for veterinarians (within the context of the VCPR) to utilize telehealth technologies and dispense medication prescribed by another veterinarian. The VCPR is the key that unlocks the medicine cabinet. Wisconsin Statues’ Chapter 89 defines the VCPR as the relationship between a licensed veterinarian, a client (who owns the animal), and the patient (the animal) in which all the following apply as the veterinarian: Assumes the responsibility for making medical judgments regarding the patient, and the client agrees to accept those medical judgments and to follow the vet’s instructions. Has sufficient knowledge of the patient to initiate a general or preliminary diagnosis because of a recent exam or medically appropriate and timely visits to the animal’s premises. Is readily available for any follow-up treatment the patient may need, including adverse reactions to medications used or prescribed by the veterinarian."
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Post by martywny on Jan 24, 2023 7:34:31 GMT -5
What many confuse with antibiotics are coccidiostats, given to young chicks in their feed. gardendmpls, Thank you for that wealth of information, and you are right about coccidiostats which is the medicated feed I was referring to. The USDA's reference to 'Administering preventative vaccines and other veterinary biologics' being an acceptable organic practice leads me to believe that starting chicks out on feed with amprolium will allow me to produce certified organic quality livestock. I do not plan on starting a commercial operation, but want to produce enough so that I can sell to a close-knit local market.
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Post by gardendmpls on Jan 24, 2023 9:40:16 GMT -5
certified organic quality livestock As long as you don't claim to be certified organic, you will be OK. I just say mine is naturally grown, although an authentic naturally grown chicken would be a Red Junglefowl grown running wild in a Southeast Asian forest, not the eclectic mix of varieties hanging out in my coop and run. What I find interesting is that some organic producers use feed that is vegetarian, whereas in nature, chickens are omnivores eating seeds, leaves, bugs, worms, snails, slugs, mice, frogs and whatever else they can catch.
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Post by martywny on Jan 24, 2023 9:55:10 GMT -5
As long as you don't claim to be certified organic, you will be OK I think a label stating the birds were given amprolium as chicks and raised using organic methods would be my choice. They will be free-range to the extent I can keep them net-covered since I have a nesting pair of hawks in the backyard and eagles up the road.
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