Vokar
Blooming
Posts: 183
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Post by Vokar on Apr 17, 2019 4:49:25 GMT -5
If you guys are talking about what I said (I'm not sure if you are: I mean if 'starting outdoors' == 'starting my seeds outside in an unheated greenhouse' or some such), then you can do it even if you live in the north. I'm in Idaho (granted one of the warmer parts of Idaho). Our frost-free growing season is about five months long. Our winters have been known to be as cold as -26 degrees F. (but usually -10 degrees F. or warmer is as cold as it gets). I usually start my seeds in the greenhouse in the middle of March when the nighttime low temperatures warm to be between 27 degrees F. and maybe 35 degrees F. (ideally with the lower end of that spectrum being much less common than a few to several degrees higher). I think my greenhouse cost about $45 on Amazon (sans the stakes). It's not one of those big hard ones that cost a couple thousand dollars (and it's not homemade, either). It's 6'x5'x3', with a supple plastic cover to go over a metal frame (which you can disassemble). I disassemble it (somewhere around late spring) after I finish transplanting all the plants. Anyway, growing the way I do is similar to winter sowing (on a larger scale), which you can also do in cold areas (colder than mine). I usually start things like watermelon, tomatoes, muskmelons, peppers, herbs, alpine strawberries, squash, etc., but there are some things you can grow at colder temperatures (before I usually start mine, I believe), like sorrel (sorrel is super easy to grow in it, and one of the first things to sprout if it's too cold for other things), maybe garlic chives, onions, etc. It's safe to close your vents at night (although I didn't always think so), which can warm things up considerably (but plants like to breathe; so, I only recommend it at night, on cold nights where it might frost or get cold enough to lessen germination rates or growth rates of watermelon or some such). Just don't keep them closed when the sun is shining where it's 70+ degrees F. or the plants may wither (perhaps from being scorched). Anyway, for me, it's a lot easier, less stressful, and more cost-effective, than starting indoors, with fewer disease and pest problems. For some reason, we've tended to get spider mites indoors, and fungal diseases, which made it really hard to start peppers and tomatoes indoors for some odd reason. Outdoors, neither have been a problem for seedlings (although they can be a problem for watermelon later in the season after they've been fruiting). Plus, indoors we have to set up a bunch of lights and keep them on at the right times, and perhaps other things (like heat mats, temperature control, air circulation, etc.) Not only is light free outside, but so is the air circulation. The greenhouse stays warm enough with proper opening and closing of the vents (but you could always go the extra mile and try to heat it more). This is my fourth season using this greenhouse (from reviews I've read, similar greenhouses don't usually last that long; so, maybe it's not cost-effective for everyone). One of the challenges with it is the vents tear easily after they've been in use a while. (So repairing them to prevent cats from entering and hurting themselves or the plants is probably a good idea.) Some plastic connectors I had broke (since I left them out in the sun and they got brittle), but it turns out they and the pipes they connected to weren't strictly necessary anyway (they just made the greenhouse puff out to be a bit bigger). I found a really nice greenhouse of a similar sort at the store, the other day (you could walk into it, even, and put shelves inside; my trays all go on the ground; also, the cover seemed as durable as my current one, which has me thinking it'll last at least as long; but, my current one still works, although I need to repair the large vent, again; so I didn't get it). Anyway, I don't mean to be contradictory. Instead, I'm trying to make sure I wasn't sending the wrong impression about my climate, and growing environment. But, yeah, I'm sure starting seeds indoors is easier for some people (but you never know until you've tried both, and given them a fair trial).  I'm sure I could do a lot better indoors than the last time I tried, too (using wood ash does actually repel the pest and disease issues I mentioned, in large part, and using ventilation, as I didn't do before, would probably help). However, I'm quite light sensitive, and I'd have to grow them in my bedroom (so, growlights pose a problem for me, even if I get to turn them off at night). If they were LEDs, that would be fine, but they'd be super expensive and hard to set up compared with fluorescents to get anywhere near the same amount of light, and the same coverage. Maybe with the rising popularity of LEDs, things have changed (but I haven't checked to find out). |
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Post by tom 🕊 on Apr 17, 2019 14:01:51 GMT -5
Anyway, growing the way I do is similar to winter sowing I do something similar. My cold frame is a raised bed (tire) covered with a storm window pane. When there is no frost, I remove the pane and cover with a window screen. When the plants reach the screen, I remove it. |
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yeatster
Sprout
Haverhill Ma zone 6a
Posts: 31
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Post by yeatster on Apr 17, 2019 14:15:50 GMT -5
If you guys are talking about what I said (I'm not sure if you are: I mean if 'starting outdoors' == 'starting my seeds outside in an unheated greenhouse' or some such), then you can do it even if you live in the north. I'm in Idaho (granted one of the warmer parts of Idaho). Our frost-free growing season is about five months long. Our winters have been known to be as cold as -26 degrees F. (but usually -10 degrees F. or warmer is as cold as it gets). I usually start my seeds in the greenhouse in the middle of March when the nighttime low temperatures warm to be between 27 degrees F. and maybe 35 degrees F. (ideally with the lower end of that spectrum being much less common than a few to several degrees higher). I think my greenhouse cost about $45 on Amazon (sans the stakes). It's not one of those big hard ones that cost a couple thousand dollars (and it's not homemade, either). It's 6'x5'x3', with a supple plastic cover to go over a metal frame (which you can disassemble). I disassemble it (somewhere around late spring) after I finish transplanting all the plants. Anyway, growing the way I do is similar to winter sowing (on a larger scale), which you can also do in cold areas (colder than mine). I usually start things like watermelon, tomatoes, muskmelons, peppers, herbs, alpine strawberries, squash, etc., but there are some things you can grow at colder temperatures (before I usually start mine, I believe), like sorrel (sorrel is super easy to grow in it, and one of the first things to sprout if it's too cold for other things), maybe garlic chives, onions, etc. It's safe to close your vents at night (although I didn't always think so), which can warm things up considerably (but plants like to breathe; so, I only recommend it at night, on cold nights where it might frost or get cold enough to lessen germination rates or growth rates of watermelon or some such). Just don't keep them closed when the sun is shining where it's 70+ degrees F. or the plants may wither (perhaps from being scorched). Anyway, for me, it's a lot easier, less stressful, and more cost-effective, than starting indoors, with fewer disease and pest problems. For some reason, we've tended to get spider mites indoors, and fungal diseases, which made it really hard to start peppers and tomatoes indoors for some odd reason. Outdoors, neither have been a problem for seedlings (although they can be a problem for watermelon later in the season after they've been fruiting). Plus, indoors we have to set up a bunch of lights and keep them on at the right times, and perhaps other things (like heat mats, temperature control, air circulation, etc.) Not only is light free outside, but so is the air circulation. The greenhouse stays warm enough with proper opening and closing of the vents (but you could always go the extra mile and try to heat it more). This is my fourth season using this greenhouse (from reviews I've read, similar greenhouses don't usually last that long; so, maybe it's not cost-effective for everyone). One of the challenges with it is the vents tear easily after they've been in use a while. (So repairing them to prevent cats from entering and hurting themselves or the plants is probably a good idea.) Some plastic connectors I had broke (since I left them out in the sun and they got brittle), but it turns out they and the pipes they connected to weren't strictly necessary anyway (they just made the greenhouse puff out to be a bit bigger). I found a really nice greenhouse of a similar sort at the store, the other day (you could walk into it, even, and put shelves inside; my trays all go on the ground; also, the cover seemed as durable as my current one, which has me thinking it'll last at least as long; but, my current one still works, although I need to repair the large vent, again; so I didn't get it). Anyway, I don't mean to be contradictory. Instead, I'm trying to make sure I wasn't sending the wrong impression about my climate, and growing environment. But, yeah, I'm sure starting seeds indoors is easier for some people (but you never know until you've tried both, and given them a fair trial). I'm sure I could do a lot better indoors than the last time I tried, too (using wood ash does actually repel the pest and disease issues I mentioned, in large part, and using ventilation, as I didn't do before, would probably help). However, I'm quite light sensitive, and I'd have to grow them in my bedroom (so, growlights pose a problem for me, even if I get to turn them off at night). If they were LEDs, that would be fine, but they'd be super expensive and hard to set up compared with fluorescents to get anywhere near the same amount of light, and the same coverage. Maybe with the rising popularity of LEDs, things have changed (but I haven't checked to find out). Thanks for the informative comment! Hopefully next year I will have some yard to play in. That's the goal. I will definitely try something like this. I really like the idea of starting outdoors, before "typical" recommendation. I recall reading, a healthy living soil would sort of defy the typical parameters set for gardening. |
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yeatster
Sprout
Haverhill Ma zone 6a
Posts: 31
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Post by yeatster on Apr 17, 2019 14:17:05 GMT -5
Anyway, growing the way I do is similar to winter sowing I do something similar. My cold frame is a raised bed (tire) covered with a storm window pane. When there is no frost, I remove the pane and cover with a window screen. When the plants reach the screen, I remove it. I've seen something similar and hope I remember that trick when the time comes. |
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yeatster
Sprout
Haverhill Ma zone 6a
Posts: 31
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Post by yeatster on Apr 17, 2019 14:19:25 GMT -5
Well, all the seedlings I was worried about are still alive, just going slow, recovering. The peppers have sprouted and look great. I've also got a bunch of herbs, arugula and Chile peppers sprouted. I got this
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Post by James on Apr 24, 2019 15:21:52 GMT -5
Tomatoes and peppers, a couple of the hardest things to grow. Want something to eat? Try planting some radishes, spinach, carrots and onions. For later outdoor planting: corn, beans, squash and potatoes. What I call the Big 4. Have fun!
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Post by binnylou on May 22, 2019 13:18:54 GMT -5
yeatster, I see you checked in. How are your tomatoes doing? Have you been able to harvest anything from your garden? So far, we have only had asparagus from our garden, but am anticipating garden lettuce soon. Don’t forget, we love pictures. If you have some, be sure to share. It’s always interesting to see how others manage their gardens.
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Post by James on May 23, 2019 9:12:02 GMT -5
Plant something. Enjoy.
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yeatster
Sprout
Haverhill Ma zone 6a
Posts: 31
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Post by yeatster on Jun 7, 2019 7:24:26 GMT -5
Thanks for your interest!!! It just so happens I need some advice. My tomato plants took a beating from putting them outside too early...the weather in New England has been relentless. So, they are pretty small for their age. The last couple days they have made some wonderful progress in foliage. BUT there is a lot of chlorosis going on with older leaves. My initial thought was too much Sun so I shaded them a bit more. I see now that new growth is starting to exhibit the same pattern. I noticed a couple winged pests taking a liking to them so I'm assuming they may be the culprits. Also, I noticed a small hole burrowed in the pot near the stem. I'm gonna go take pics now |
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yeatster
Sprout
Haverhill Ma zone 6a
Posts: 31
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Post by yeatster on Jun 7, 2019 7:25:32 GMT -5
yeatster, I see you checked in. How are your tomatoes doing? Have you been able to harvest anything from your garden? So far, we have only had asparagus from our garden, but am anticipating garden lettuce soon. Don’t forget, we love pictures. If you have some, be sure to share. It’s always interesting to see how others manage their gardens. I intended to quote you on last post. I'm still trying to figure this out. Thank you! |
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yeatster
Sprout
Haverhill Ma zone 6a
Posts: 31
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Post by yeatster on Jun 7, 2019 7:35:19 GMT -5
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Post by binnylou on Jun 7, 2019 8:12:12 GMT -5
yeatster, the new growth on your tomatoes looks healthy enough. I had mine outside and thought they would be fine, but they got pretty ugly. We had a spell of cool and wet and the tomatoes didn't like that. They grew out of that stage and now they are settled into the garden and are looking good. Sometimes they just want sunshine...the real thing. As for the holes in the soil, possibly a spider? And his/her friend?
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yeatster
Sprout
Haverhill Ma zone 6a
Posts: 31
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Post by yeatster on Jun 7, 2019 8:18:17 GMT -5
yeatster , the new growth on your tomatoes looks healthy enough. I had mine outside and thought they would be fine, but they got pretty ugly. We had a spell of cool and wet and the tomatoes didn't like that. They grew out of that stage and now they are settled into the garden and are looking good. Sometimes they just want sunshine...the real thing. As for the holes in the soil, possibly a spider? And his/her friend? Thanks binnylou! I agree, new growth looks great. My concern is the 2nd to last pic, that's new growth with the same chlorosis developing on the tip. I'm gonna sprinkle some DE on the soil for now and keep an eye out. Thanks again! |
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yeatster
Sprout
Haverhill Ma zone 6a
Posts: 31
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Post by yeatster on Jun 7, 2019 8:33:25 GMT -5
 Tomato, cucumber, bell pepper, serrano, jalapeno, arugula, parsley, cilantro, thyme,chives & basil. I made an arugula cilantro salsa for tacos and it was amazing. Loving the arugula |
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Post by desertwoman on Jun 7, 2019 20:20:52 GMT -5
Look at all those babies! Looking good yeatster, It would be helpful if you list your general location/growing zone in your signature line so that we can know, at a glance, where you are gardening. Go to Profile>Edit Profile>Personal>Signature |
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I'm sure I could do a lot better indoors than the last time I tried, too (using wood ash does actually repel the pest and disease issues I mentioned, in large part, and using ventilation, as I didn't do before, would probably help). However, I'm quite light sensitive, and I'd have to grow them in my bedroom (so, growlights pose a problem for me, even if I get to turn them off at night). If they were LEDs, that would be fine, but they'd be super expensive and hard to set up compared with fluorescents to get anywhere near the same amount of light, and the same coverage. Maybe with the rising popularity of LEDs, things have changed (but I haven't checked to find out).
