Vokar
Blooming
Posts: 183
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Post by Vokar on Jul 4, 2019 20:35:05 GMT -5
tom π , I don't see any other signs of insects at all out there (I don't think it's pill bugs; it's almost like there are invisible flea beetles, but I don't know), and it's pretty dry. However, I took a horseradish leaf in the house for experimental purposes, a couple days ago or so, and there are little things developing on it, which might be mini cocoons, eggs, or something. Here's a picture, but they're so small in the picture that they just look like slivers in it (there are two you can see):
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Vokar
Blooming
Posts: 183
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Post by Vokar on Jul 4, 2019 20:43:31 GMT -5
tom π I guess the cacoons, eggs, or whatever they are are on the outside plants, too, but they're a lighter color (see those two spots that look like a colon punctuation mark?): Anyway, I'm not too worried about it, though, although I am curious what the creature is.
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Post by tom π on Jul 4, 2019 20:53:25 GMT -5
The holes first pictured look too big for the flea beetles I have here. I do see the two spots in your last picture.
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Vokar
Blooming
Posts: 183
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Post by Vokar on Jul 4, 2019 20:59:50 GMT -5
tom π , Yeah, you're probably right. The holes can get pretty big, and can even eat away pretty much everything but the center veins. I saw a gnat and a cool leafhopper on one, but β¦ We've got a lot of horseradish plants around the garden. (First year.) They all have at least a few holes.
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Vokar
Blooming
Posts: 183
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Post by Vokar on Jul 4, 2019 21:17:07 GMT -5
tom π I think it's cabbage worms, or a similar caterpillar (the eggs look like that). Horseradish is in the cabbage family, anyhow, and the leaves taste like strong cabbage. I don't know where they're hiding, though, and I didn't know they liked potatoes (the link has a picture of potato damage). I do find cabbage loopers on the ground in patches of lambsquarter (which is related to epazote), though.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Jul 4, 2019 21:32:06 GMT -5
Vokar Those leaves just don't seem to have any serrations on the edges, which is why it doesn't seem like epazote, green or red. But maybe there are different varieties.
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Vokar
Blooming
Posts: 183
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Post by Vokar on Jul 4, 2019 23:46:20 GMT -5
pepperhead212 , Ah. There are serrations (though not pointed ones), but they were a lot more obvious before it got eaten. See the upper left leaf, on the right side? The first three lobes at the top are examples of its serrations (although the parts between got eaten a little, and other serrations it had didn't look exactly like those). Here's a picture of some epazote with a similar style. The leaves in my picture are those of an immature plant, though; those aren't always as heavily serrated as more mature ones in many kinds of plants. The color is different than others I see, though. Anyway, remind me and I can post another picture when it's older.
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Post by tom π on Jul 5, 2019 5:34:05 GMT -5
I think it's cabbage worms, or a similar caterpillar (the eggs look like that). Cabbage worm don't crawl off and hide during the day. If you had cabbage worms, you would be able to fine them. The damage is too large for microscopic creatures. I think it is from something large like pill bugs or crickets. Several pests could be involved.
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Vokar
Blooming
Posts: 183
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Post by Vokar on Jul 5, 2019 7:45:19 GMT -5
tom π , You may be right about the pill bugs. I came out in the morning when I've seen pill bugs feeding on pepper foliage before in a previous year (granted they came out little later, when the sun was a bit higher; maybe 7 or 8 AM), and although I found none on or near the horseradish or epazote, there were a few eating the potato leaves (maybe they call them potato bugs for a reason). However, I disagree about caterpillars not hiding or going somewhere dark to sleep (whether or not they hide or sleep in the day particularly; they don't hang out on plants or in plain sight 24/7; even on cabbage, the ones I've observed hide tight inside the headsβI've never actually seen them come out, nor seen them feeding in the day to make the holes they make outside of the heads, but I've seen plenty in the heads when we've grown cabbage in previous yearsβbut there are no heads here for shelter with horseradish; so, they'd probably go somewhere else like they do for peppers and such). However, caterpillars usually poop a lot, and I don't see any of that (so, I'm curious to see whatever comes out of those eggs). Moths are nocturnal, as I understand it, and the cabbage worms we get look like cabbage loopers, which turn into moths, and we do get moths that look like that. I'm not sure if they're nocturnal at the caterpillar stage (but I don't know why they wouldn't be). Butterflies are another story, though. Some cabbage worms do turn into butterflies. We have the white butterflies that look much like those that come from cabbage worms (so we probably have the potential for both of those kinds). I found more leafhoppers, another gnat, an aphid, and a spider, but that's about it on the horseradish, other than all the eggs (there are plenty of those on some leaves). Sometimes, I see things that look just like the eggs except that they're suspended by thread-like things.
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Post by tom π on Jul 5, 2019 8:06:38 GMT -5
I came out in the morning when I've seen pill bugs feeding on pepper foliage before in a previous year If you put a piece of board or a brick near your plants, you may find the pests hiding under it.
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Vokar
Blooming
Posts: 183
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Post by Vokar on Jul 12, 2019 21:56:15 GMT -5
pepperhead212 , Here's a picture of the epazote with some new growth, taken today. Whatever it was seems to be done eating it.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Jul 12, 2019 22:46:54 GMT -5
Good luck, Vokar - I hope they are gone for good!
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Vokar
Blooming
Posts: 183
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Post by Vokar on Jul 12, 2019 22:48:08 GMT -5
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Vokar
Blooming
Posts: 183
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Post by Vokar on Jul 15, 2019 16:18:31 GMT -5
pepperhead212 , So far so good. Well, I see a little new nibbling, but it should be growing fast enough. tom π , I found a caterpillar in the soil not far from the horseradish when I was transplanting a few onions, but I'm not sure that it was a cabbage worm, nor am I sure it's what ate holes in the horseradish. I know it's not the ideal time to transplant onions, but we needed to move them.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Jul 15, 2019 16:53:10 GMT -5
I just planted a clone I had, about 8" tall, with branching on it, from just a cutting about 2 weeks ago! And the roots were as long as the top! I'll have to try to get a photo of it later. I hope those bugs stay off of those, Vokar. Maybe sprinkle a little DE around the base, in case the bugs are coming up from the ground at night? Wouldn't help if they are flying in, but worth a try. They are looking more like epazote now, with less chewed off of them!
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