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Post by gianna on Aug 31, 2016 14:29:08 GMT -5
No. It's all here in this thread, now. The other thread no longer exists. LOL, thanks. It's all so confusing. 8-|
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Post by lilolpeapicker on Aug 31, 2016 15:34:12 GMT -5
That's my usual state of affairs!
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Post by Mumsey on Sept 2, 2016 4:35:40 GMT -5
So, back to the meat. If a product says "no antibiotics, no hormones, no additives", does that mean there is nothing bad in it? Except fat of course, and we all know PORK FAT RULES!
Just bought pork loin with the above label, on sale for $1.49/lb. Pretty darn cheap, one day sale. I don't think it was a true center cut though, there is some fat and that darker part that is always more tender. All in all, it's tasty.
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Post by desertwoman on Sept 2, 2016 10:05:57 GMT -5
I think it is a pretty good meat source, Mumsey and and good start towards a cleaner meat product. And if I were a meat eater I would choose that over conventional meats. I think the main difference between what you bought and a certified organic meat would be the feed the animals have received. That feed would be GMO free, vegetarian, no pesticides, along with no hormones, antibiotics and additives.
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Post by davidjp on Sept 2, 2016 11:22:54 GMT -5
I do eat pork but I think if we were to get a tour of a piggery we would probably go off it for life. Seems from my little knowledge its one of the most intensively reared animals and involves a fair amount of cruelty. Look up "farrowing crates" and you'll see what I mean. Looks like they are thankfully banned in California but of course not in many other places in the US where the pig farming lobby and industry is stronger. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestation_crate
Also seems like pigs are fairly intelligent animals. I grew up near a pig farm that had large open fields and pigs were housed outdoors in all weathers with the simple protection of small corrugated iron kennels for won't of a better word. It was always a joy to see the crowds of young piglets racing around the fields together in one big group, although by that stage it had been reduced to about 10acres of mud.
To me animal welfare is more important than all the GMO stuff although I can understand that people have great concerns about it.
One meat source that I think is pretty good and seems to be underappreciated in this country is lamb. My understanding is that sheep don't do well under confinement and as they are pretty good grazers of what can be fairly marginal grasslands the meat you buy is largely grassfed and doesn't have quite the intensification that other more mainstream meat producing animals do in this country. That said I know a lot of people think it has too distinct a taste, but I really like it. Also it is more expensive as its mostly imported but I have had some very good US lamb. Also bison is good and I believe that has some of the same attributes as lamb as I heard that bison are so stroppy that they won't stand close confinement together in those large feedlot operations so you get a more grassfed animal with all the benefits of an improved omega 3/6 oil ratio.
This is a happy British saddleback pig in mud
Some nice meaty looking probably Dorset downs sheep with lambs in fields that probably would not be too suitable for cereal production but grows grass well so what else would you do with this land
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Post by jobet on Sept 2, 2016 13:40:25 GMT -5
Here is an organization that might be of help on choosing good beef, and other animal products. The only meat I eat is occasional grassfed beef, and I look for their seal: www.americangrassfed.org/
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Post by desertwoman on Sept 2, 2016 15:10:18 GMT -5
I agree davidjp animal welfare is every bit as important as what they are fed. I want both covered. My husband does eat some meat and we buy local sourced chicken, lamb and occasional beef when he wants it. This way we know exactly how the animals were raised.
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Post by brownrexx on Sept 2, 2016 17:38:20 GMT -5
To me animal welfare is more important than all the GMO stuff although I can understand that people have great concerns about it. I am in total agreement with you there and it is the main reason that I never eat veal and I rarely eat beef. I am appalled at the conditions that the poor animals are raised in. Grassfed beef would be OK, but I am so much out of the habit of eating beef that I just don't even think about it.
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Post by lilolpeapicker on Sept 4, 2016 7:26:43 GMT -5
Animal welfare should be most important, indeed. While this looks like a good thing, the vaccines may not be considered something that is a part of the animal that does not need to be listed as ingredients on the label, like gmos, will this be true of the grassed-fed label as well? But I am hoping that is not the case. I love meat though I do not have much beef I do enjoy a burger of steak now and again.
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Post by oliverman on Sept 4, 2016 23:47:08 GMT -5
I have a couple things to say here, as I am an organic farmer. First, sites like "NaturalNews" really frost my fanny with their exaggerated headlines and such. Yes, I do administer vaccinations to the sheep and cattle. Lambs get a 2cc dose of vaccine twice. I hardly see that as "pumping them full of vaccines." What are we supposed to do instead? Let them suffer from a preventable illness? I have lost both lambs and calves to tetanus, and it is not a pleasant way to go! I have never had a case of lockjaw in vaccinated animals. As to the comment from davidjp, lambs are the most economical to raise exclusively on forages. However, similar to beef cattle, most are fattened in feedlots for at least 90 days. Nearly all cattle and sheep in this country are raised on pastures until past weaning age (2-5) months for lambs and 6-9 months for calves. It is only after that that they are typically put in feedlots. Lamb is definitely an underappreciated meat in this country. Every bit as good as beef (better even in my opinion). It is also more efficient to produce, as 25% more meat can be produced with the same amount of feed. Mumsey, I will note that there are no legally approved hormones for use in swine production, so a pork label that says that it is "horomone free" tells about as much as a bottle of water that claims to be "opium free." Depending on how "antibiotic free" is defined, that may be a good thing.
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Post by davidjp on Sept 5, 2016 0:51:16 GMT -5
Thanks oliverman for the clarification. I guess that makes sense to fatten in a feedlot situation here with the plentiful supply of feedstuff grains in this country. I was probably extrapolating from my past experiences that are probably not that relevant. I lived in Wales for several years, population 3 million humans, 11 million sheep. I'm pretty sure they don't have any feedlots in the sense I think of them here. They probably did have a system of bringing lambs down off the mountains and other more marginal areas to fatten up in the valleys on better grass and wouldn't surprise me if some supplementation took place at that stage. One place I lived was just by a large estuary in south Wales that had extensive salt flats that were exposed at low tide and since it has one of the largest tidal ranges in the world there was 1000's of acres exposed at low tide full of salt water marsh plants and seaweeds. They kept a flock penned in on that marsh and marketed the meat at a significant premium. Supposedly it was more flavourful but not sure I was always convinced but it was good tasting lamb.
I notice here in Southern California that lamb is quite often sold, I'm sure theres an ethnic market developing for it in large urban areas, probably middle eastern in descent. Most of the lamb here I see is Australian, (Costco, trader joes). I can't say I'm a huge fan of it and especially the lamb legs always seem ready deboned which I'm sure is a detriment to flavour especially in roasting. I prefer New Zealand but that doesn't seem so common and I really don't see US too much although there is an occasional flock I see locally.
I must say one of the reasons I like lamb is the grassfed aspect of it and I actually will now probably avoid US lamb although I just rarely see it here anyways. Of course who knows how that aspect of it is handled in other countries although I get the impression that feedlot feeding is especially prevalent in this country due to the large grain/corn/soybean production in this country which isn't as feasible in lots of other places. I have this image of rolling pasturelands of New Zealand and it kind of appeals. I think one of the reasons I'm not so keen on Australian is an immediate image comes to mind of sheep extensively grazed in almost semi desert scrub marginal land. Funny how image feeds into things and I'm not sure how realistic it is. Although my father did spend some time on an Australian sheep station and I also have friends who did the compulsory one year on a New Zealand sheep farm and there tales basically have set my image of how the situation is in both places.
I found this link describing differences in US vs imported lamb but who knows how accurate it is
localfoods.about.com/od/lambrecipes/a/New-Zealand-American-Lamb.htm
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Post by lilolpeapicker on Sept 5, 2016 5:46:52 GMT -5
Yes, thx for your side of the issue, oliverman . We need to understand both sides. And lamb is my favorite meat though I don't buy it very often.
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Post by brownrexx on Sept 5, 2016 8:18:57 GMT -5
Well said oliverman . I looked at the Natural News link a little closer and they do seem to have a lot of alarmist and conspiracy theory type of headlines. If you look at the left side of the page you will see articles like this one on Global Warming
(NaturalNews) The highly-politicized climate change debate rages on as we approach the crucial 2016 U.S. presidential election, despite an ever-growing body of evidence revealing the fact that "catastrophic man-made global warming" is nothing more than an elaborate hoax.
I just can't believe that anyone is still saying that global warming is a hoax. Here is another one of their headlines:
South Carolina succeeds in 'nuke' test of aerial chemical weapons of mass destruction; food supply pollinators instantly obliterated by the millions
We all know that South Carolina was spraying for mosquitos, not testing chemical weapons but this is the headline. The spraying was misguided and idiotic, but NOT testing chemical weapons of mass destruction as stated by Natural News.
I'm afraid that I would take anything that Natural News says with a really big grain of salt.
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Post by oliverman on Sept 5, 2016 8:55:47 GMT -5
davidjp, your views of lamb from various locations throughout the world is fairly accurate. New Zealand has a climate where grass feeding is by far the cheapest. Australia is a mixed bag, as the higher rainfall northern areas are great for that, but the drier areas see some have some feedlots. The situation in the US is varied, with a significant number of grass fed producers trying to find a niche market. The government subsidization of grain production, especially corn and soy, has made grain feeding in feedlots the most economical way of raising ruminants. without cheap corn, that goes the way if the buffalo. I have not gone exclusively grass fed, as I end up with some odds and ends of grain that has little to no market value as a byproduct of my grain farming operation. Also, I grow small grains such as wheat and oats as cover crops. If these mature past flowering, which they sometimes do before it is time to graze them, that is a violation of the grass fed labelling rules. As of now, the Halal buyer I work with does not care about those details and pays a decent price. If I find a premium for exclusively grass fed, I will consider that route. One thing that bothers me, linguistically, is the fact that grass fed really means "fed plants without seeds of significant size." Turnips, rape, peas, clover, alfalfa, etc. Are not grasses, but a significant part of the diet of most grass fed animals.
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