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Post by binnylou on Aug 25, 2016 21:00:16 GMT -5
The Bakken pipeline is happening. From northwest North Dakota, through the eastern corner of South Dakota, across Iowa from the northwest corner of the state to the southeast corner of the state, ending in southern Illinois. A scar across these states....1,134 miles of ugly. Trees ripped out, layers of soil being disturbed. A slash across our state that will still be visible when my grandchildren have grandchildren. Ugly, ugly, ugly. I see it every time I go to town...it makes me want to cry. For landowners who didn't want to grant easement, eminent domain was used...for the benefit of a private company.
This pipeline will cross below the Missouri river, the Des Moines river and the Mississippi river. Our public water supply, along with others, is in jeopardy if there is a leak. IF....
Landowners are discovering that the soil is not being put back in the order that it came out. Apparently that didn't get discussed?
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Post by desertwoman on Aug 25, 2016 21:46:26 GMT -5
My heart breaks...what are they thinking. Oh wait. They weren't/aren't thinking
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Post by restless on Aug 26, 2016 10:16:31 GMT -5
I am also concerned about pipelines, fracking, the environment, etc. But what I find interesting is that many of my friends who are also concerned about the environment and our consumption of petroleum products can't put into words the concrete steps they are taking to limit their use of petroleum products, personally. Sacrifice is involved. A sacrifice of convenience (plastic provides convenience in many forms...bottled drinks, pureed fruit snacks for toddlers in plastic sacks, pre-cut vegetables at the store, throwing out paper/plastic plates and cups instead of washing ceramic ones). A sacrifice of comfort (less climate control, smaller cars, public transport.) A sacrifice of diet and consumption (eating locally, buying locally made goods, reusing items, buying used items instead of new.) A sacrifice of lifestyle (traveling for vacations using fossil fuels to get to a destination.) Unless a large number of people in he world start making conscious effort to sacrifice on modern convenience, modern comfort, modern diets, modern consumption, none of this will ever have a limit. There is just going to be more of this. Until the petroleum runs out.
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Post by brownrexx on Aug 26, 2016 15:42:02 GMT -5
Unless a large number of people in he world start making conscious effort to sacrifice on modern convenience, modern comfort, modern diets, modern consumption, none of this will ever have a limit. There is just going to be more of this. Until the petroleum runs out. I totally agree.
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Post by desertwoman on Aug 26, 2016 17:56:21 GMT -5
So so true restless That was a great checklist. I was at 100% and patting myself on the back (arrogant fool that I can be at times)....until the last one. Travel will always be in my blood and consumption of fossil fuels is the only way to get there, at least at this time. I do drive a Prius, however, and my gas consumption took a huge dive. We drive a lot more now, rather than fly, if we can get to our destination in a a day or two. I've taken the train a few times too- sweet way to travel. East coast trips and out of country still require a plane ride. I can't imagine going back, however, to an all gas vehicle ever again. Our (probably hubby, first) next car (a few years away) will be electric. We're banking on the all electric having vastly improved over the next 4 -5 years.
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Post by Mumsey on Aug 26, 2016 18:43:45 GMT -5
binnylou We will be seeing it here as well, seems a fight is in vain. My part to reduce fuel consumption is to retire. I figure I will use way less than 1/4 of what I use driving to work. My plan is to make one trip a week out of town. I do drive a fuel efficient vehicle, though not electric.
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Post by octave1 on Aug 26, 2016 21:06:46 GMT -5
I am very pessimistic about a plastic-free world. Too many things are made of plastic, OR are made with other things that use plastic. If I look around myself, in my home, I see toothbrushes, shampoo bottles, refridgerator handles, shelves, all sorts of condiment bottles, yoghurt containers, hundreds and hundreds of things made of plastic, entirely or in part... How can we do without? How can I go to the store a buy a shampoo that does not come in a plastic bottle? Or plastic-free razors? I love natural material for my home, like porcelain tiles or wooden floors, but where am I going to find plastic-free window blinds?
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Post by desertwoman on Aug 26, 2016 23:11:10 GMT -5
Granted, plastics are everywhere. However, there are alternatives to plastic- we just have to want it enough (and by 'we' I mean consumers and manufacturers alike). I have seen yogurt is glass jars. All my condiments come in glass jars (it is a choice I make to buy organic products in glass). Razors are available in stainless steel. We can find toothbrushes made of wood or bamboo.There are window blinds made of bamboo and wood. There is no reason they couldn't return to using glass for shampoos (there is a glut of recycled glass "they" don't know what to do with), frig handles could go back to metal and on and on.
Organic foods used to be a fringe movement. It is now a growing market. Non plastics may still be a fringe movement but that can and will change too. It may not get to where I would like to see it in my lifetime but it will grow, just as organics is growing. Of this I have no doubt.
edited to add: I feel it is quite within the realm of possibility to start now by stopping all production of new plastics. There is enough of that stuff on this planet to recycle for a long long time. No need for new production. Make it mandatory to have to recycle all plastics. Keep it out of the landfill. That would be a good start.
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Post by jobet on Aug 27, 2016 3:47:36 GMT -5
Here are some shampoo alternatives: shampoo alternativesI'm on my last bit of shampoo in a plastic bottle; purchased on sale a long time ago. I'm switching to baking soda.
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Post by restless on Aug 27, 2016 5:50:19 GMT -5
I didn't want to intimate that by making my list I am perfect. I am not. I make a conscious effort to be mindful of fossil fuel consumption. I use a bar soap that does not have packaging. I have tried bar shampoos and conditioners, but ended up going back to a liquid type because I couldn't live with the results on my hair. My hair is very long and tangles easily and I just couldn't find bar products that worked well for me. Friends with short hair say they work well for them. I take glass jars to MOM'S and use the bulk bins.
One decision I did make differently than desertwoman when I got a car is that I chose a fuel efficient car with a petroleum engine. I did some research in 2008 and 2009 when I was looking for a new car and found a lot that said that the manufacture of the great number of lithium ion batteries (and the mining of their ingredients) used in hybrid and electric cars may be more detrimental to the environment then using a fuel efficient engine. My commute to work is very short, and I hope to keep it that way. I actually don't like to travel much...but I do participate in a car club as a social activity and we go on drives for fun and to raise money for charity.
In the winter, we keep out house on the chilly side and live with it by bundling up. But in the summer, we run the AC more than we should because of my allergies and asthma.
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Post by jobet on Aug 27, 2016 6:20:07 GMT -5
In the winter, we keep out house on the chilly side and live with it by bundling up. But in the summer, we run the AC more than we should because of my allergies and asthma. Ditto; same here.
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Post by brownrexx on Aug 27, 2016 9:31:42 GMT -5
I think that we all do as much as we can and as a group we probably do better than the average consumer.
I remember when drinks and shampoos came in glass bottles but due to the breakage (safety?) issue it is unlikely that we will see mainstream America return to glass bottles.
I refuse the plastic bags at the supermarket on a regular basis and I probably keep at least 100 or more bags a year out of the landfill or recycle bin just by myself. Just yesterday I combined groceries and refused 3 bags. Think how much plastic would not go to waste if lots of people did this. So many people want to put every single little item that they buy into a plastic bag just to carry it into their house.
However I do feel discouraged. I see the world population continually increasing and all of those extra people using resources which are finite. I just can't visualize the Earth continuing to support humans at the rate that we are currently damaging it with our activities no matter how many plastic bags I refuse or how carefully I travel.
I feel a sense of hopelessness when I see all of the habitat loss humans cause with their housing developments for the increasing population, pipelines for fossil fuel distribution, fracking, rain forest destruction for coffee production and the list goes on and on.
I still do what I can to conserve because I feel that it is the right thing to do.
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Post by jobet on Aug 27, 2016 10:15:38 GMT -5
However I do feel discouraged. I see the world population continually increasing and all of those extra people using resources which are finite. I just can't visualize the Earth continuing to support humans at the rate that we are currently damaging it with our activities no matter how many plastic bags I refuse or how carefully I travel. Sooooo true.
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Post by restless on Aug 27, 2016 13:11:26 GMT -5
I use reusable grocery bags. I also don't pack vegetables and fruit I buy at the store into the compostable bags they offer. I just make sure my lemons and bananas and potatoes are all together so they can be weighed easily by the cashier. The glass jar thing is easy, too. I took my jars to the customer service counter. They were weighed. They got a sticker with the weight. So I can take the jars and get beans, grains, nuts, fresh ground peanut butter, etc. From bulk and use no container. I can also buy tofu this way. I can buy milk, half and half, and cream in glass bottles from a local dairy. My bottle deposit is subtracted from my next charge when I return the bottles. I don't know why more stores don't offer these services.
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Post by kimmsr🕊 on Aug 28, 2016 5:48:48 GMT -5
I find many people go to the grocers and buy organic produce and put it in plastic bags to take home, mainly because there are no paper bags available.
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